oil blow out IO-360

The change in oil consumption may be cause for concern as already mentioned,
but as to the cooling effect of the extra couple of quarts of oil, I have
never seen my A4A run cooler on 8 quarts than on 6 (It's about 115 F here
today.) It consistently uses 1 quart every 8 hours which is not unusual for
this type engine. I have seen discussions about very low oil consumption
being a cause for concern because it may cause lubrication issues in the
cylinders.

--
Best Regards,
Mike

http://photoshow.comcast.net/mikenoel

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
ups.com...
I have an IO-360-A3B6 900 SFNEW in '97. I used to be able to keep about
7 quarts in it without it blowing out. Now it seems to be blowing oil
down to about 5.5 quarts. Since I live in the 100F OATs part of the
country, the extra oil really helps cooling.
Should I worry about what is causing the extra oil blow out or just
chock it up to an aging engine. I know some engines always blow out to
6ish quarts.
If I shouldn't worry about the extra blow out I'll just put a separator
on it, but I don't want to mask a problem first. One recent change is
we raised the oil pressure since the regulator had been slipping prior
to annual.

-Robert

Robert M. Gary wrote:
I have an IO-360-A3B6 900 SFNEW in '97. I used to be able to keep about
7 quarts in it without it blowing out. Now it seems to be blowing oil
down to about 5.5 quarts. Since I live in the 100F OATs part of the
country, the extra oil really helps cooling.

I don't think a quart of extra oil in the crankcase makes much
difference on cooling. Cooling takes place in the oil cooler, and as
long as you have normal flow through it, it should cool fine.

Paul kgyy wrote:

Robert M. Gary wrote:

I have an IO-360-A3B6 900 SFNEW in '97. I used to be able to keep about
7 quarts in it without it blowing out. Now it seems to be blowing oil
down to about 5.5 quarts. Since I live in the 100F OATs part of the
country, the extra oil really helps cooling.


I don't think a quart of extra oil in the crankcase makes much
difference on cooling. Cooling takes place in the oil cooler, and as
long as you have normal flow through it, it should cool fine.

Yes, but heating takes place in the crankcase and more oil will absorb
heat from more area. Hotter oil entering the oil cooler will transfer
more heat to the air.


Matt

Paul kgyy wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote:
I don't think a quart of extra oil in the crankcase makes much
difference on cooling. Cooling takes place in the oil cooler, and as
long as you have normal flow through it, it should cool fine.

The more frequently the oil has to go through the system the hotter it
gets. The oil does not heat when its sitting in the sump.

-Robert

Excuse my ignorance, but how would valve guides, bad rings, etc cause it to
leak down to 5.5 quarts and then stop. It seems these causes would result in
a continued loss as long as the engine was run.

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
news:kaStg.67770$ZW3.1299@dukeread04...
Do a differential compression test and pay attention to
valve guides play and seals, often the oil is not being
blown out the breather, but is leaking around the valves
[even one valve] and burning. If you have high leakage
during the differential compression test, you're getting too
much blow-by and that is raising the crankcase pressure and
blowing oil out the breather tube. If the breather is
blocked, it will blow the main seal and you'll see oil
behind the prop. If the oil level goes down fast and then
stabilizes, you may have a dipstick that is not calibrated
properly and you're over filling.

The engine is old, nearly ten years, check all the seals and
mating surfaces. You only have 900 hours, but that is less
than 100 hours a year. Corrosion in the cylinders and blow
by, and oil being sucked past the ring into the combustion
chamber are all possible, Check valve guides and seals,
differential compression and if available, borescope it.
Higher oil pressure would increase the leakage, but not
effect the valve guides or rings. An oil separator will
only help if the oil is going out the breather tube.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P



"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
ups.com...
|I have an IO-360-A3B6 900 SFNEW in '97. I used to be able
to keep about
| 7 quarts in it without it blowing out. Now it seems to be
blowing oil
| down to about 5.5 quarts. Since I live in the 100F OATs
part of the
| country, the extra oil really helps cooling.
| Should I worry about what is causing the extra oil blow
out or just
| chock it up to an aging engine. I know some engines always
blow out to
| 6ish quarts.
| If I shouldn't worry about the extra blow out I'll just
put a separator
| on it, but I don't want to mask a problem first. One
recent change is
| we raised the oil pressure since the regulator had been
slipping prior
| to annual.
|
| -Robert
|

I am curious, what is your oil temp in those 'HOT'" conditions?

Ben


Mike Noel wrote:
The change in oil consumption may be cause for concern as already mentioned,
but as to the cooling effect of the extra couple of quarts of oil, I have
never seen my A4A run cooler on 8 quarts than on 6 (It's about 115 F here
today.) It consistently uses 1 quart every 8 hours which is not unusual for
this type engine. I have seen discussions about very low oil consumption
being a cause for concern because it may cause lubrication issues in the
cylinders.

--
Best Regards,
Mike

http://photoshow.comcast.net/mikenoel

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
ups.com...
I have an IO-360-A3B6 900 SFNEW in '97. I used to be able to keep about
7 quarts in it without it blowing out. Now it seems to be blowing oil
down to about 5.5 quarts. Since I live in the 100F OATs part of the
country, the extra oil really helps cooling.
Should I worry about what is causing the extra oil blow out or just
chock it up to an aging engine. I know some engines always blow out to
6ish quarts.
If I shouldn't worry about the extra blow out I'll just put a separator
on it, but I don't want to mask a problem first. One recent change is
we raised the oil pressure since the regulator had been slipping prior
to annual.

-Robert

Probably, but there might be more than one condition working
on the oil loss. I'd look at quantity and baffling as well
as crankcase pressure, but oil does strange things. There
are dry sump engines that scavenge oil from the crankcase
and return it to an external oil tank, these have two oil
pumps, on to provide engine pressure and the other [larger
pump] to remove the used and foamy oil from the engine. In
all engines [modern designs] the oil that was sent to the
rockers must be drained away back to the crankcase. If
there is a blockage, it will pool and be more likely to be
sucked past the valves.

It is possible that the oil level seems to stabilize at 5.5
quarts only because the flight was terminated and the oil
replenished.

A sudden change in the pattern is what should cause alarm
and investigation. If the airplane has a history of doing
one thing and then that changes for no apparent reason, why
is important to find out.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"soxinbox" wrote in message
...
| Excuse my ignorance, but how would valve guides, bad
rings, etc cause it to
| leak down to 5.5 quarts and then stop. It seems these
causes would result in
| a continued loss as long as the engine was run.
|
| "Jim Macklin" wrote
in message
| news:kaStg.67770$ZW3.1299@dukeread04...
| Do a differential compression test and pay attention to
| valve guides play and seals, often the oil is not being
| blown out the breather, but is leaking around the valves
| [even one valve] and burning. If you have high leakage
| during the differential compression test, you're getting
too
| much blow-by and that is raising the crankcase pressure
and
| blowing oil out the breather tube. If the breather is
| blocked, it will blow the main seal and you'll see oil
| behind the prop. If the oil level goes down fast and
then
| stabilizes, you may have a dipstick that is not
calibrated
| properly and you're over filling.
|
| The engine is old, nearly ten years, check all the seals
and
| mating surfaces. You only have 900 hours, but that is
less
| than 100 hours a year. Corrosion in the cylinders and
blow
| by, and oil being sucked past the ring into the
combustion
| chamber are all possible, Check valve guides and seals,
| differential compression and if available, borescope it.
| Higher oil pressure would increase the leakage, but not
| effect the valve guides or rings. An oil separator will
| only help if the oil is going out the breather tube.
|
|
| --
| James H. Macklin
| ATP,CFI,A&P
|
|
|
| "Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
|
ups.com...
| |I have an IO-360-A3B6 900 SFNEW in '97. I used to be
able
| to keep about
| | 7 quarts in it without it blowing out. Now it seems to
be
| blowing oil
| | down to about 5.5 quarts. Since I live in the 100F
OATs
| part of the
| | country, the extra oil really helps cooling.
| | Should I worry about what is causing the extra oil
blow
| out or just
| | chock it up to an aging engine. I know some engines
always
| blow out to
| | 6ish quarts.
| | If I shouldn't worry about the extra blow out I'll
just
| put a separator
| | on it, but I don't want to mask a problem first. One
| recent change is
| | we raised the oil pressure since the regulator had
been
| slipping prior
| | to annual.
| |
| | -Robert
| |
|
|
|
|

During climb at 100 mph indicated there is about a needle width of green
between the oil temperature indicator needle and red-line. When I throttle
back to a cruise power setting of about 2500 RPM @ 6500 MSL and a bit rich
of peak on the leanest cylinder, the oil temp gauge drops back to a couple
of needle widths below red-line.

I suspect the oil cooler could use a flush, but the oil cooler bypass valve
was replaced about a year ago and its seat in the oil filter adapter was
lapped. The bypass valve work produced a noticeably cooler climb.

--
Best Regards,
Mike

http://photoshow.comcast.net/mikenoel

wrote in message
ups.com...
I am curious, what is your oil temp in those 'HOT'" conditions?

Ben


Mike Noel wrote:
The change in oil consumption may be cause for concern as already
mentioned,
but as to the cooling effect of the extra couple of quarts of oil, I have
never seen my A4A run cooler on 8 quarts than on 6 (It's about 115 F here
today.) It consistently uses 1 quart every 8 hours which is not unusual
for
this type engine. I have seen discussions about very low oil consumption
being a cause for concern because it may cause lubrication issues in the
cylinders.

--
Best Regards,
Mike

http://photoshow.comcast.net/mikenoel

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
ups.com...
I have an IO-360-A3B6 900 SFNEW in '97. I used to be able to keep about
7 quarts in it without it blowing out. Now it seems to be blowing oil
down to about 5.5 quarts. Since I live in the 100F OATs part of the
country, the extra oil really helps cooling.
Should I worry about what is causing the extra oil blow out or just
chock it up to an aging engine. I know some engines always blow out to
6ish quarts.
If I shouldn't worry about the extra blow out I'll just put a separator
on it, but I don't want to mask a problem first. One recent change is
we raised the oil pressure since the regulator had been slipping prior
to annual.

-Robert

Sounds like a good place to start.


"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
oups.com...
|
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| Do a differential compression test and pay attention to
| valve guides play and seals, often the oil is not being
| blown out the breather, but is leaking around the valves
| [even one valve] and burning. If you have high leakage
| during the differential compression test, you're getting
too
| much blow-by and that is raising the crankcase pressure
and
| blowing oil out the breather tube. If the breather is
| blocked, it will blow the main seal and you'll see oil
| behind the prop. If the oil level goes down fast and
then
| stabilizes, you may have a dipstick that is not
calibrated
| properly and you're over filling.
|
|
| I just go ahold of my mechanic (he's been out of town). He
suggests
| another compression check (although we just did one last
month) and a
| boroscope. I'd be happy with the boroscope since I've been
meaning to
| do that for quite some time. He also suggested keeping an
oil log since
| I've never actually tracked oil usage.
|
| -Robert
|