Landing Advice...

I am flaring with my left hand (right hand on the throttle), so
probably crank the yoke to the left a bit...

--Dan


P S wrote:
Exactly. Your description of the problem sounded too familiar :-).

Dan wrote:
I think you may be on to something here. So, what you are saying is
that in a calm wind, I might be unconciously adding left alieron in the
flare, and correcting with right rudder...

I think this acutally happens to me _more_ in calm wind situations.


P S wrote:


A disclaimer first, that I'm a post solo student [P S == Post Solo]. I
have
had similar (opposite) problems after touching down with the nose
pointing to the
left while the plane drifted to the right. My CFI found two things that
I was
doing uncontiously. one is the non-level movement of the yoke when
applying the
back-pressue while rounding out, and in my case, I was over-correcting
my
earlier tendancy of "pulling the yoke downward" action by raising the
left elbow
too much. Then stepped on the left rudder in reflex to "correct" that
-- resulting in
the nose pointing to the left while the plane drifted to the right.
Your problem could be the opposite of mine, i.e. your left elbow was
pulling down the
left alieron, or, maybe as the nose rose, it yawed to the left by the
same reason it
yawed to the left on takeoff with more power, and you used right rudder
to
correct it, instead of very slight right alieron in the round out. If
the later is true,
the wings were not very level before touching down.

This may indeed be the problem. Does the yaw to the left decrease in
intensity as your ground speed slows? If so it could very well be an
aileron input error.

Another thing to check is something that I ran into when transitioning to
the right seat in a C182 RG. I was inadvertently removing my left foot from
the rudder to move my leg out of the way of the flap switch on roll out.
The problem was that at the same time I was unknowingly pushing on the right
rudder. Instant veer towards the right. All it took to discover my error
was a quick ride around the pattern with another pilot, we spotted it
together almost instantly.

Fly with a CFI or another pilot in the right seat. Eliminate the aircraft
as being the problem.

And be sure that you are not transferring automobile driving muscle memory
to your flying by lifting your right foot off the "accelerator" and pushing
down on the "brake".

Jim

"Dan" wrote in message
oups.com...
I am flaring with my left hand (right hand on the throttle), so
probably crank the yoke to the left a bit...

For what it's worth, if you get into the habit of, when over the runway,
always correcting drift with aileron, and correcting heading with rudder,
the problem you're experiencing will go away naturally (and I think it's
likely that "P S" has correctly identified the issue). Even if you do
accidently pull the yoke a bit left while flaring, as soon as the airplane
starts to drift your natural reaction will (should) be to compensate with
some right aileron, which will negate the accidental left aileron you put in
in the first place.

Obviously there are times when heading is the appropriate correction for
drift, but by the time you are ready to touch down on the runway, you *must*
have the nose of the airplane aligned with the runway. The rudder is used
for that. Likewise, you *must* compensate for any drift, so that the
airplane is tracking straight down the runway. The aileron is used for
that.

You may recognize these control inputs as being the same for one method of
dealing with crosswinds. Of course, even in the "crab and kick-out"
method, you do at the very end, just before touching down, use the controls
in just this way. So it's perfectly reasonable to just always get in the
habit of controlling the airplane just before touchdown in this way.

In addition (not that this seems to be the issue you're dealing with), while
one should be careful to not overcontrol the airplane, and while in cruise
flight it often makes sense to let light turbulence just have its way with
the airplane (many gusts are corrected by another gust that comes along
right after...chasing the gusts with the flight controls is inefficient and
tiring ), during landing is no time to let the airplane get away from
you. If you get pushed one direction, be sure to get the plane controlled
back the other direction ASAP, all the while keeping the nose aligned with
the rudder.

Pete

You fly the airplane until it is tied down. The nose will
weathervane into the wind unless you use the rudder to keep
it pointed straight [or the direction you want] and you will
be blown sideways by the wind unless you use aileron and
brakes to steer the airplane.

After touchdown, it is normal and proper to use full aileron
during the roll out on the runway and if you look in your
aircraft manual or a pilot training manual, you'll see a
taxi control diagram.



--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"Dan" wrote in message
ups.com...
| All,
|
| Occasionally, I find myself in the following situation
when landing. I
| am trying to figure out what I am doing wrong.
|
| I fly over the numbers at the proper airspeed, and on the
(VASI)
| glideslope. I flare by putting the cowling to the horizon
and holding
| off unitl touchdown. After touchdown, I find the plane
drifting to the
| left, while the nose is pointing to the right. Applying
further right
| rudder seems to result in a squirrley/sliding feeling (not
sure if I am
| acutally sliding though, just afraid to push it any
further). Applying
| brakes at anything more than very slight pressure results
in skidding.
| At this point, I find myself rolling down the runway,
unable to slow
| down fast enough and trying to control the drift.
|
| This could happen in little to no wind conditions. What
am I doing
| wrong? I'm not a beginner, but occasionally this happens
and I can't
| seem to figure it out.
|
| Do I need to....
|
| A. Crank in aggressive alieron to the right.
| B. Apply lots of back-pressure to get more weight on the
mains to allow
| breaking.
| C. Something else....?
|
| Dan
|

I have had a left drift during flare where it appeared there was a
crosswind when there was none. It happened most often when I was solo. I
finally attributed it to more wing load (drag)on the left side since I
was the only passenger. I am flying a cherokee six with tip tanks and
if landing imbalanced, alieron correction is a must to correct for
drift. It always seemed to sneak up on me in very calm conditions when I
was complacent.
Dan wrote:
All,

Occasionally, I find myself in the following situation when landing. I
am trying to figure out what I am doing wrong.

I fly over the numbers at the proper airspeed, and on the (VASI)
glideslope. I flare by putting the cowling to the horizon and holding
off unitl touchdown. After touchdown, I find the plane drifting to the
left, while the nose is pointing to the right. Applying further right
rudder seems to result in a squirrley/sliding feeling (not sure if I am
acutally sliding though, just afraid to push it any further). Applying
brakes at anything more than very slight pressure results in skidding.
At this point, I find myself rolling down the runway, unable to slow
down fast enough and trying to control the drift.

This could happen in little to no wind conditions. What am I doing
wrong? I'm not a beginner, but occasionally this happens and I can't
seem to figure it out.

Do I need to....

A. Crank in aggressive alieron to the right.
B. Apply lots of back-pressure to get more weight on the mains to allow
breaking.
C. Something else....?

Dan

In article . com,
says...
All,

Occasionally, I find myself in the following situation when landing. I
am trying to figure out what I am doing wrong.

I fly over the numbers at the proper airspeed, and on the (VASI)
glideslope. I flare by putting the cowling to the horizon and holding
off unitl touchdown. After touchdown, I find the plane drifting to the
left, while the nose is pointing to the right. Applying further right
rudder seems to result in a squirrley/sliding feeling (not sure if I am
acutally sliding though, just afraid to push it any further). Applying
brakes at anything more than very slight pressure results in skidding.
At this point, I find myself rolling down the runway, unable to slow
down fast enough and trying to control the drift.

This could happen in little to no wind conditions. What am I doing
wrong? I'm not a beginner, but occasionally this happens and I can't
seem to figure it out.

Do I need to....

A. Crank in aggressive alieron to the right.
B. Apply lots of back-pressure to get more weight on the mains to allow
breaking.
C. Something else....?

What you need to do is practice some crosswind landings.

--
Duncan

On Sat, 5 Aug 2006 18:24:42 +1200, Dave Doe wrote:

In article . com,
says...
All,

Occasionally, I find myself in the following situation when landing. I
am trying to figure out what I am doing wrong.

I fly over the numbers at the proper airspeed, and on the (VASI)
glideslope. I flare by putting the cowling to the horizon and holding
off unitl touchdown. After touchdown, I find the plane drifting to the
left, while the nose is pointing to the right. Applying further right
rudder seems to result in a squirrley/sliding feeling (not sure if I am
acutally sliding though, just afraid to push it any further). Applying
brakes at anything more than very slight pressure results in skidding.
At this point, I find myself rolling down the runway, unable to slow
down fast enough and trying to control the drift.

This could happen in little to no wind conditions. What am I doing
wrong? I'm not a beginner, but occasionally this happens and I can't
seem to figure it out.

Do I need to....

A. Crank in aggressive alieron to the right.
B. Apply lots of back-pressure to get more weight on the mains to allow
breaking.
C. Something else....?

What you need to do is practice some crosswind landings.

Apart from gusty conditions, which needs more attention, I fly the
aircraft crabbed until about 100 to 200ft above the runway. Then I
gently straighten the aircraft with rudder and align it with the
runway at the same time stopping drift with opposite aileron. The
aircraft is now set up to land on one wheel and most times little
correction is required after that. However, as you near & touch the
runway and the aircraft slows down, you will need more aileron to
correct any drift.

This is the opposite you would do for take-off where you put in full
aileron into wind as you start the take-off roll then as you increase
speed slowly reduce aileron input.