Staying current/proficient

Example, say you start an approach in IMC. You break out and are able
to fly the rest of the approach VMC. Do you count this approach toward
currency?


I've seen this debated online over and over and over again. I think
the predominant view is that if you are in/above a layer and fly any
part of the charted approach by relying solely on instruments, it is
loggable. So if you on the approach course and can't see the ground,
then fly thru even a thin layer and break out 2500 AGL, its still
loggable.

But again, there are LOTS of view on this. I'm just reporting what
I've read, so DON'T shoot the messenger.

--Jeff

On 01/30/07 13:20, wrote:

When flying IFR without foggles what are the rules for logging toward
currency?

Example, say you start an approach in IMC. You break out and are able
to fly the rest of the approach VMC. Do you count this approach toward
currency?

Thanks in advance,
ak.

I'm not aware of any rules. When I've asked CFIs in my area about this,
I was told to use this rule of thumb: I can log the approach toward
currency if:

- I reach the initial approach fix in IMC; and

- I don't break out of IMC until after I'm established on my
descent, after the final approach fix or glide slope intercept
point.

But as Jeff says, there are going to be a lot of differing opinions
on this. However, if anyone knows of a legal counsel opinion (or
similar) on this, I would really like to see it.


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

Mark Hansen wrote:
On 01/30/07 13:20, wrote:
When flying IFR without foggles what are the rules for logging toward
currency?

Example, say you start an approach in IMC. You break out and are able
to fly the rest of the approach VMC. Do you count this approach toward
currency?

Thanks in advance,
ak.

I'm not aware of any rules. When I've asked CFIs in my area about this,
I was told to use this rule of thumb: I can log the approach toward
currency if:

- I reach the initial approach fix in IMC; and

- I don't break out of IMC until after I'm established on my
descent, after the final approach fix or glide slope intercept
point.

But as Jeff says, there are going to be a lot of differing opinions
on this. However, if anyone knows of a legal counsel opinion (or
similar) on this, I would really like to see it.


I was taught that if you start the approach in IMC then it's loggable.
Since the approach starts at the IAF, then if you break out after the
IAF you can log it.

-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Clarke ]
Posted At: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 12:26 PM
Posted To: rec.aviation.ifr
Conversation: Staying current/proficient
Subject: Staying current/proficient

Hi All,

Open question to folks, what strategies do you use to stay current or
better yet, proficient?

Check ride is right around the corner. I got signed off for the ride
today. So the currency question is in the back of my mind now. Most of
my flying is x-ctry (2/month) with some local scenic flights.

thanks,
KC

Kevin,
You should understand that almost every other instrument rated
pilot has the same problem - stay proficient and current. I solve this
by pairing up with some of the other pilots in our local CAP Squadron
and making sure we shoot some approaches or execute some holds at least
once a month. I get most of the work one month and the safety pilot gets
it another month. We each get to benefit from the other's faux pas. It
seems to work out such that we can all stay fairly proficient for about
1/2 the cost of me finding an instructor to ride along.

The x/c stuff is easy to handle because you're already flying
pretty regularly. It's the approaches, holds, departures, and local area
stuff that we need to work on.

Kevin Clarke wrote in news:f5Mvh.16320$pQ3.8
@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net:

Check ride is right around the corner. I got signed off for the ride
today. So the currency question is in the back of my mind now. Most of
my flying is x-ctry (2/month) with some local scenic flights.

Owning my own plane helps alot, so the availability factor is not a problem
for last minute go decisions.

I actively seek IMC whenever I can which forces me to be proficient. I am
up to almost 680 hours with just shy of 40 hours IMC.

I have not had foggles on since training.

Look forward to your checkride report!

Allen

I use a PC simulator. If I'm planning a flight somewhere and the
weather looks uncertain, I will do the actual flight on the sim with
crosswinds and low ceilings, including the missed approach with hold.

I always file IFR on cross country flights except where the conditions
are good VFR and IFR involves a long detour (kgyy-kluk for example).
I had also been doing IPCs every 6 months but now my instructor has
relocated so I will probably need to use a pilot friend to fly safety
pilot with me.

Kevin Clarke wrote:

Hi All,

Open question to folks, what strategies do you use to stay current or
better yet, proficient?

Check ride is right around the corner. I got signed off for the ride
today. So the currency question is in the back of my mind now. Most of
my flying is x-ctry (2/month) with some local scenic flights.

thanks,
KC

Several things:
1) file and fly in the system every time you go cross country, even if
the weather is severe clear VMC. Staying in the system keeps you
practiced with the procedures and keeps you sharp on maintaining
altitude and heading, as well as with the radios.

2) Always fly the instrument approach when you arrive at your
destination, regardless of the weather (since you're IFR, your request
for an instrument approach into your destination can't be turned down as
long as it is for the approach officially in use). Just don't bury your
head in the cockpit. I find it is actually harder to fly a good
approach in VMC than in IMC because of the division of your attention
between the panel and outside. By flying the approach, you stay sharp
on all aspects of doing an approach except actually being in IMC. You
also develop a better feel for where you are relative to the ground and
the airport this way.

3) Fly with an instructor and do an IPC every 6 months. Having an extra
set of eyes evaluate your performance gives you an opportunity to
correct bad habits before they become ingrained. It also shows the
insurance company that you are committed to doing regular recurrent
training, which may give you a break on your insurance, plus you'll get
an opportunity to practice stuff that doesn't come up in day to day
flying like holds, unusual attitudes and partial panel (all of which are
required parts of an IPC). If you are already reasonably proficient
(and you will be if you follow all 3 of these recommendations and fly
reasonably frequently), the IPC should take no more than an 2 hours of
instruction time...just enough time to do a few approaches, a hold and
unusual attitude.

On Jan 31, 7:01 pm, Ray Andraka wrote:
Kevin Clarke wrote:
Hi All,

Open question to folks, what strategies do you use to stay current or
better yet, proficient?

Check ride is right around the corner. I got signed off for the ride
today. So the currency question is in the back of my mind now. Most of
my flying is x-ctry (2/month) with some local scenic flights.

thanks,
KC

Several things:
1) file and fly in the system every time you go cross country, even if
the weather is severe clear VMC. Staying in the system keeps you
practiced with the procedures and keeps you sharp on maintaining
altitude and heading, as well as with the radios.

Great advice. Filing IFR in even under VMC will pay off. Not only does
it polish up your ATC skills, it will also simplifly your navigation
through busy complex airspaces. Example: every time I go to Detroit, I
get "cleared as filed" but I know from experience that Toledo always
amends my clearance as I get closer. Having done it plenty of times
under VFR, it was really not a big under IMC. That is not the type of
thing you want to handle on your first time in IMC in a busy airspace.



2) Always fly the instrument approach when you arrive at your
destination, regardless of the weather (since you're IFR, your request
for an instrument approach into your destination can't be turned down as
long as it is for the approach officially in use). Just don't bury your
head in the cockpit. I find it is actually harder to fly a good
approach in VMC than in IMC because of the division of your attention
between the panel and outside. By flying the approach, you stay sharp
on all aspects of doing an approach except actually being in IMC. You
also develop a better feel for where you are relative to the ground and
the airport this way.

Again, good advice, but don't assume ATC will automatically issue you
an instrument approach because you are IFR. If it is VMC, they will
assume you want a visual approach unless you ask for it.



3) Fly with an instructor and do an IPC every 6 months. Having an extra
set of eyes evaluate your performance gives you an opportunity to
correct bad habits before they become ingrained. It also shows the
insurance company that you are committed to doing regular recurrent
training, which may give you a break on your insurance, plus you'll get
an opportunity to practice stuff that doesn't come up in day to day
flying like holds, unusual attitudes and partial panel (all of which are
required parts of an IPC). If you are already reasonably proficient
(and you will be if you follow all 3 of these recommendations and fly
reasonably frequently), the IPC should take no more than an 2 hours of
instruction time...just enough time to do a few approaches, a hold and
unusual attitude.

Good advice again, but I am not sure how the insurance company finds
out about your IPC. I was never asked about IPC, just whether I am
current or not.

Ask your insurance agent about discounts for regular
recurrent training [not just an IPC] at a school such as
caters to corporate operators. They can and do offer
discounts for regular training.



"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message
ups.com...
| On Jan 31, 7:01 pm, Ray Andraka wrote:
| Kevin Clarke wrote:
| Hi All,
|
| Open question to folks, what strategies do you use to
stay current or
| better yet, proficient?
|
| Check ride is right around the corner. I got signed
off for the ride
| today. So the currency question is in the back of my
mind now. Most of
| my flying is x-ctry (2/month) with some local scenic
flights.
|
| thanks,
| KC
|
| Several things:
| 1) file and fly in the system every time you go cross
country, even if
| the weather is severe clear VMC. Staying in the system
keeps you
| practiced with the procedures and keeps you sharp on
maintaining
| altitude and heading, as well as with the radios.
|
| Great advice. Filing IFR in even under VMC will pay off.
Not only does
| it polish up your ATC skills, it will also simplifly your
navigation
| through busy complex airspaces. Example: every time I go
to Detroit, I
| get "cleared as filed" but I know from experience that
Toledo always
| amends my clearance as I get closer. Having done it plenty
of times
| under VFR, it was really not a big under IMC. That is not
the type of
| thing you want to handle on your first time in IMC in a
busy airspace.
|
|
|
| 2) Always fly the instrument approach when you arrive at
your
| destination, regardless of the weather (since you're
IFR, your request
| for an instrument approach into your destination can't
be turned down as
| long as it is for the approach officially in use). Just
don't bury your
| head in the cockpit. I find it is actually harder to
fly a good
| approach in VMC than in IMC because of the division of
your attention
| between the panel and outside. By flying the approach,
you stay sharp
| on all aspects of doing an approach except actually
being in IMC. You
| also develop a better feel for where you are relative to
the ground and
| the airport this way.
|
| Again, good advice, but don't assume ATC will
automatically issue you
| an instrument approach because you are IFR. If it is VMC,
they will
| assume you want a visual approach unless you ask for it.
|
|
|
| 3) Fly with an instructor and do an IPC every 6 months.
Having an extra
| set of eyes evaluate your performance gives you an
opportunity to
| correct bad habits before they become ingrained. It
also shows the
| insurance company that you are committed to doing
regular recurrent
| training, which may give you a break on your insurance,
plus you'll get
| an opportunity to practice stuff that doesn't come up in
day to day
| flying like holds, unusual attitudes and partial panel
(all of which are
| required parts of an IPC). If you are already
reasonably proficient
| (and you will be if you follow all 3 of these
recommendations and fly
| reasonably frequently), the IPC should take no more than
an 2 hours of
| instruction time...just enough time to do a few
approaches, a hold and
| unusual attitude.
|
| Good advice again, but I am not sure how the insurance
company finds
| out about your IPC. I was never asked about IPC, just
whether I am
| current or not.
|
|

Or require it as a condition of the policy in certain types like the
PA46.

On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 14:28:55 -0600, "Jim Macklin"
wrote:

Ask your insurance agent about discounts for regular
recurrent training [not just an IPC] at a school such as
caters to corporate operators. They can and do offer
discounts for regular training.