IFR GNS 430 with expired database

Jose wrote:
I have been told that it is illegal to fly IFR in an aircraft that has
an operating IFR rated GNS 430, whose database is out of date, =even= if
it is placarded INOP, placed in the OFF position, and the airplane, even
without the 430, is otherwise legal for IFR.

From what I was told by the DE who did my commercial checkride, you can
use an IFR approved GPS with an expired database for enroute navigation,
including filing /G, as long as the database contains all of the
waypoints you will be using on your flight. You may not use it for
approaches with an expired database.

Regardless, an expired database wouldn't prevent you from filing /A (or
/U as appropriate) and flying the airways. All that is required is that
you have the navigation equipment on board that is required to navigate
the planned route. So if you have a VOR receiver, you can file and fly
the airways regardless of the status of your GPS. Worst case is that it
would fall back to the same category as a handheld.


-m
--
## Mark T. Dame
## CP-ASEL, AGI
## insert tail number here
## KHAO, KISZ
"The world market for computers is approximately five units."
-- Thomas J. Watson, President, IBM Corporation, 1950.

Jose wrote:
I have been told that it is illegal to fly IFR in an aircraft that has
an operating IFR rated GNS 430, whose database is out of date, =even= if
it is placarded INOP, placed in the OFF position, and the airplane, even
without the 430, is otherwise legal for IFR.

pedantic answer:
The restrictions are spelled out in the Approved Flight Manual
Supplement. Most installations of a particular make and model (like
Garmin 430) have identical AFMSs, but since the AFMS is approved on a
aircraft-by-aircraft basis, it's possible there can be differences.
There is no general answer to your question. You have to read the AFMS
for the specific aircraft.

Dave

On 4/16/2007 9:47:22 AM, Dave Butler wrote:

pedantic answer:

I am not sure why you consider the suggestion of reading the supplement a
pedantic answer.

--
Peter

Well, I for one, had to go look up the meaning of pedantic. I'm glad I
did. I now have a new, fancy word to use in place of nit-picky :-)




"Peter R." wrote in message
...
On 4/16/2007 9:47:22 AM, Dave Butler wrote:

pedantic answer:

I am not sure why you consider the suggestion of reading the supplement a
pedantic answer.

--
Peter

There might be restrictions for GPS approaches, but I would think that
flying non-GPS approaches with the 430 should be fine since you're not
really using the database.

On 16 Apr 2007 07:11:13 -0700, "paul kgyy"
wrote:

There might be restrictions for GPS approaches, but I would think that
flying non-GPS approaches with the 430 should be fine since you're not
really using the database.

What about using it for locating missed approach holding points (a-la
NDB or DME substitution)? Since the database is out of date, you
can't use it for approaches, even non-GPS.

Peter Clark wrote:
On 16 Apr 2007 07:11:13 -0700, "paul kgyy"
wrote:


There might be restrictions for GPS approaches, but I would think that
flying non-GPS approaches with the 430 should be fine since you're not
really using the database.


What about using it for locating missed approach holding points (a-la
NDB or DME substitution)? Since the database is out of date, you
can't use it for approaches, even non-GPS.

Yes.. you can.

If you can fly a plain ILS, LOC or VOR approach, you can use a 430
without a current database. You can still confirm cross radials and such
without an IFR GPS.

Dave

On Apr 16, 6:01 pm, Dave S wrote:
Peter Clark wrote:
On 16 Apr 2007 07:11:13 -0700, "paul kgyy"
wrote:

What about using it for locating missed approach holding points (a-la
NDB or DME substitution)? Since the database is out of date, you
can't use it for approaches, even non-GPS.

Yes.. you can.

Indeed. The usual verbiage is

"IFR enroute and terminal navigation is prohibited unless the pilot
verifies the currency of the data base or verifies each selected
waypoint for accuracy by reference to current approved data."

NDB and DME substitution on non-GPS missed approaches is a terminal
operation.

would a sextant provide "current approved data"?


On 16 Apr 2007 22:06:41 -0700, wrote:

On Apr 16, 6:01 pm, Dave S wrote:
Peter Clark wrote:
On 16 Apr 2007 07:11:13 -0700, "paul kgyy"
wrote:

What about using it for locating missed approach holding points (a-la
NDB or DME substitution)? Since the database is out of date, you
can't use it for approaches, even non-GPS.

Yes.. you can.

Indeed. The usual verbiage is

"IFR enroute and terminal navigation is prohibited unless the pilot
verifies the currency of the data base or verifies each selected
waypoint for accuracy by reference to current approved data."

NDB and DME substitution on non-GPS missed approaches is a terminal
operation.

There might be restrictions for GPS approaches, but I would think that
flying non-GPS approaches with the 430 should be fine since you're not
really using the database.

What about using it for locating missed approach holding points (a-la
NDB or DME substitution)? Since the database is out of date, you
can't use it for approaches, even non-GPS.

It depends on the HP - often it's a return to the OM using a
backcourse, or a nearby VOR, or intersection of 2 VOR radials. None
of these requires the database. Even an NDB would work if you have
ADF on board.