Parachute recommendations

On Mar 16, 1:31*pm, Marc Ramsey wrote:
Darryl Ramm wrote:
And I brought the same long-softie for possibly the same glider a
DG-300/303, on recommendation from possibly the same rigger. If you
buy a long-softie that is designed for a more reclined seating
position, I think it comes implicitly with the idea that it won't
necessarily be comfortable in all gliders - but maybe that's not
obvious.

Actually, no, I bought the Mini Softie after I figured out I wasn't very
comfortable in the 303 or the Duo. *I think he just considers Long
Softies to be the parachute that glider pilots buy...

Marc

As I am in the market for a parachute in the near future as well, does
anyone have a suggestion what type of pack would be best in a Ka-6CR?

Pete

P.S. if you have a good condition used one I'd be interested as well

Adam D wrote:
Also, as
a skydiver with 1000+ jumps, glider, and recreational aerobatic pilot
I highly recommend that you go through a basic jump course and at
least a few levels of AFF or static line training at least to the
point where you feel comfortable with getting out of an aircraft and
opening the parachute on your own. There's no point in having a
parachute if you are too scared or don't have the proper training to
use it. At the moment of truth, if you ever need to use it, you want
to have all the cards stacked in your favor.

This recommendation seems reasonable, but I wonder if there is any
research, even just an informal survey, that provides evidence for it.
After all, the suggestion is about 4000 USA glider pilots should make
several parachute jumps to improve the outcomes of the bail-out from a
that happens every two three years.

My fuzzy recollection of the last 30 years is that any pilot that gets
out of the glider has a pretty good outcome, meaning no or small
injuries. In other words, we'd be risking injury or worse from 8000 to
12,000 practice jumps to make 3 or 4 bail-outs come out a little bit better.

Perhaps my recollection is wrong.

Are there pilots with no parachute training that bailed out of a glider,
then made some practice jumps afterwards so they'd be better prepared if
it happened again?

Are there pilots that did have parachuting training before they bailed
out of a glider in an emergency, and were damn glad they had the training?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

* Updated! "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* New Jan '08 - sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more

* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

I don't have a specific suggestion, but do recall from my time flying a
K6cr that the seat back has a well for the parachute to sit in, and that
the headroom between me and the canopy (I'm 6ft 1in = 1.85m) was
minimal. Both these suggest a backpack parachute rather than one with a
built-in seat cushion.

As to which backpack type, ideally find as many pilots at your airfield
as have parachutes and ask them to let you try them out in your cockpit
(as advised in a previous thread).

vontresc wrote:
On Mar 16, 1:31 pm, Marc Ramsey wrote:
Darryl Ramm wrote:
And I brought the same long-softie for possibly the same glider a
DG-300/303, on recommendation from possibly the same rigger. If you
buy a long-softie that is designed for a more reclined seating
position, I think it comes implicitly with the idea that it won't
necessarily be comfortable in all gliders - but maybe that's not
obvious.
Actually, no, I bought the Mini Softie after I figured out I wasn't very
comfortable in the 303 or the Duo. I think he just considers Long
Softies to be the parachute that glider pilots buy...

Marc

As I am in the market for a parachute in the near future as well, does
anyone have a suggestion what type of pack would be best in a Ka-6CR?

Pete

P.S. if you have a good condition used one I'd be interested as well

Jim Meade wrote:
I'm looking at a parachute for a glider. Would like to use it for
other flying, as well, if it is suitable. INo clue of the advantages/
disadvantages of any of them.

A friend of mine is also looking for a new parachute. He is considering
a new type of emergency parachute that is rectangular ram air design,
like a sport parachute, but does not require the training that a sport
parachute does. I believe this is the one:

http://www.parachuteshop.com/aviator..._parachute.htm

Scroll down about one page to the section labeled "The canopy".

The main advantage seems to be a lower descent rate of 12 feet/second,
vs the standard round emergency parachutes that have 18 feet/second. My
high school physics says it's about the difference between jumping off a
2.5 foot high ladder vs a 5 foot high ladder.

Any comments on the desirability of this new design compared to the
round parachutes we use now? Is the lower descent rate ever a liability;
e.g., in updrafts near a cloud? Does the lower descent rate also mean
you might dragged more after landing in windy conditions?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

* Updated! "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* New Jan '08 - sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more

* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

some emergency parachutes "can be" fitted with square (ram air) parachutes,
these are only for certified jumpers who have experience in this type of
parachute. However, it also should be noted that square parachutes do not
function like round or conical parachutes, they don't open reliably unless
you are in a stable position, something you likely will not be in
immediately after a bail out and may never be in if you're not an
experienced jumper, more likely you will exit and emergency bail out
tumbling and even with experience you may be disabled and unable to enter
into a proper PLF position for deployment. The standard round canopies used
in most emergency parachutes are extensively tested to open for all
positions, in all imaginable conditions, even soaked wet, mispacked or
other... the landing with a ram air parachute is also much like
flying....they can be flown very fast, slowed, even stalled (though for
emergency use they would be less controllable to limit these) you need to
learn to flare at the correct time to make that soft airshow like stand up
landing, otherwise your landing can be pretty eventful.....(ever notice how
many at the local jump site are wearing casts or walking with crutches? )
So IMHO and in the opinion of most manufacturers the ram air canopies have a
place, but not typically in emergency pilot rigs.
Tim
Please visit the Wings & Wheels website at www.wingsandwheels.com

"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message
news:jQwDj.8843$2Y4.6839@trndny01...
Jim Meade wrote:
I'm looking at a parachute for a glider. Would like to use it for
other flying, as well, if it is suitable. INo clue of the advantages/
disadvantages of any of them.

A friend of mine is also looking for a new parachute. He is considering a
new type of emergency parachute that is rectangular ram air design, like a
sport parachute, but does not require the training that a sport parachute
does. I believe this is the one:

http://www.parachuteshop.com/aviator..._parachute.htm

Scroll down about one page to the section labeled "The canopy".

The main advantage seems to be a lower descent rate of 12 feet/second, vs
the standard round emergency parachutes that have 18 feet/second. My high
school physics says it's about the difference between jumping off a 2.5
foot high ladder vs a 5 foot high ladder.

Any comments on the desirability of this new design compared to the round
parachutes we use now? Is the lower descent rate ever a liability; e.g.,
in updrafts near a cloud? Does the lower descent rate also mean you might
dragged more after landing in windy conditions?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

* Updated! "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* New Jan '08 - sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more

* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

On Mar 17, 1:39 pm, "Tim Mara" wrote:
some emergency parachutes "can be" fitted with square (ram air) parachutes,
these are only for certified jumpers who have experience in this type of
parachute. However, it also should be noted that square parachutes do not
function like round or conical parachutes, they don't open reliably unless
you are in a stable position, something you likely will not be in
immediately after a bail out and may never be in if you're not an
experienced jumper, more likely you will exit and emergency bail out
tumbling and even with experience you may be disabled and unable to enter
into a proper PLF position for deployment. The standard round canopies used
in most emergency parachutes are extensively tested to open for all
positions, in all imaginable conditions, even soaked wet, mispacked or
other... the landing with a ram air parachute is also much like
flying....they can be flown very fast, slowed, even stalled (though for
emergency use they would be less controllable to limit these) you need to
learn to flare at the correct time to make that soft airshow like stand up
landing, otherwise your landing can be pretty eventful.....(ever notice how
many at the local jump site are wearing casts or walking with crutches? )
So IMHO and in the opinion of most manufacturers the ram air canopies have a
place, but not typically in emergency pilot rigs.
Tim
Please visit the Wings & Wheels website atwww.wingsandwheels.com


The manufacture of the linked parachute claims that the P-124 was
specifically designed as an emergency parachute for untrained airmen.
I'm also curious if anyone has used one.

Todd

On Mar 17, 1:00*pm, toad wrote:
On Mar 17, 1:39 pm, "Tim Mara" wrote:





some emergency parachutes "can be" fitted with square (ram air) parachutes,
these are only for certified jumpers who have experience in this type of
parachute. However, it also should be noted that square parachutes do not
function like round or conical parachutes, they don't open reliably unless
you are in a stable position, something you likely will not be in
immediately after a bail out and may never be in if you're not an
experienced jumper, more likely you will exit and emergency bail out
tumbling and even with experience you may be disabled and unable to enter
into a proper PLF position for deployment. The standard round canopies used
in most emergency parachutes are extensively tested to open for all
positions, in all imaginable conditions, even soaked wet, mispacked or
other... the landing with a ram air parachute is also much like
flying....they can be flown very fast, slowed, even stalled (though for
emergency use they would be less controllable to limit these) you need to
learn to flare at the correct time to make that soft airshow like stand up
landing, otherwise your landing can be pretty eventful.....(ever notice how
many at the local jump site are wearing casts or walking with crutches? )
So IMHO and in the opinion of most manufacturers the ram air canopies have a
place, but not typically in emergency pilot rigs.
Tim
Please visit the Wings & Wheels website atwww.wingsandwheels.com

The manufacture of the linked parachute claims that the P-124 was
specifically designed as an emergency parachute for untrained airmen.
I'm also curious if anyone has used one.

Todd- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Am I missing something? Here is some text from the linked website.
Their own information seems to contradict.

"Because of the advanced characteristics of these canopy designs, the
Sport Aviator model may only be used by individuals who either have
ram-air jumping experience such as skydiving, or have received special
training in the use and performance of these canopies."

and....

"The heart of the system is the P-124 ram-air canopy which is designed
for use by airmen who may have no prior jump experience or who may
even be incapacitated to some degree."


Which is it? Both are referring to the P-124 canopy design.

wrote:

Am I missing something? Here is some text from the linked website.
Their own information seems to contradict.

"Because of the advanced characteristics of these canopy designs, the
Sport Aviator model may only be used by individuals who either have
ram-air jumping experience such as skydiving, or have received special
training in the use and performance of these canopies."

and....

"The heart of the system is the P-124 ram-air canopy which is designed
for use by airmen who may have no prior jump experience or who may
even be incapacitated to some degree."


Which is it? Both are referring to the P-124 canopy design.

That web site is confusing, as it appears to refer to a Sport Aviator
model and a Pilot Emergency model, but doesn't tell you which is which.
This website by the designers and manufacturers of the P-124 is clear
about it:

http://www.rigginginnovations.com/products/aviator.htm

They show four models "For experienced Ram-Air Skydivers or training
personnel only", and two models for pilots without that experience.
Those two models deploy in the "braked" configuration.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

* Updated! "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* New Jan '08 - sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more

* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

On Mar 17, 8:18*am, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Are there pilots with no parachute training that bailed out of a glider,
then made some practice jumps afterwards so they'd be better prepared if
it happened again?

Are there pilots that did have parachuting training before they bailed
out of a glider in an emergency, and were damn glad they had the training?

I don't fit either category since I never jumped out of an aircraft in
an emergency. I do have several hundred hours flying jump planes and
have made about 50 jumps.

Point 1 - Almost all sport jumping is done with ram air parachutes
that can be steered and flared. I doubt that any canopy experience
with these has much benefit for an emergncy landing under a round.

Point 2 - Almost all glider emergency parachutes are rounds. I know
of a few pilots, one with no jump experience at all, that use ram air
emergency chutes. I also know of a least one very experienced jumper
who would never consider using a ram air emergency chute in a glider.

Point 3 - The biggest advantages of jump experience may be less fear
exiting the aircraft and more stable position on opening. I watched
lots of first time jumpers exit my aircraft. The thing that impressed
me most was that I never saw a malfunction despite the horrible
positions sometimes adopted after leaving the strut.

So my priorities would be:

1.Familairity with my own emergency chute particularly what I have to
do to turn it into the wind.

2.Getting ground training in parachute landing fall technique.

3. Getting an actual jump, but just because it's fun (until you break
something)

I know one pilot that baled out over Arizona. He was so calm and
collected he spent most of the descent trying to get nice and stable
and nearly hit the ground before he pulled. There are no style points
for the jump, get it open.

Andy

I also know of a least one very experienced jumper
who would never consider using a ram air emergency chute in a glider.

I am a very experienced jumper (known by Andy) and I would never
consider using anything BUT a ram air emergency chute in my glider.

With appropriate wing loading, of course!

2NO