Immediate Action Items Checklist

On Jun 17, 7:58*pm, gatt wrote:

Seems like you could make a pretty succinct kneeboard checklist so
you're not wasting time flipping anything.

I have one, full page laminated and easily reachable in the passenger
door pouch..... in the real deal, it's really of no use...My answers
to Ol Shy and Bashful below.

On Jun 17, 5:46 pm, "Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote:
Do YOU have one?

Yes, but in the real deal emergency, valuable time wasted reaching for
it and getting oriented to where to start reading.

Do you rehearse it or practice it while the pressure is off? If not, why not?

No, too many variables and too many situations and most importantly,
not like the real deal.

What do you use for immediate action and why?

Trouble shooting first (AVIATE), Landing spot second (NAVIGATE),
declare emergency third (COMMUNICATE).

http://tinyurl.com/6ngvp7 for my in flight emergency and how I handled
it.

I consider it utmost important the emergency procedures be memorized,
as when the crap hits the fan, reading a list would be distracting and
may excasperate the problem.

NOW.... if I had a passenger, pulling the list and having them look it
over and read it to ensure I didn't miss anything would be good CRM.
In my case, it wouldn't have done squat.

On Jun 17, 10:10*pm, A Lieberman wrote:
On Jun 17, 7:58*pm, gatt wrote:

Seems like you could make a pretty succinct kneeboard checklist so
you're not wasting time flipping anything.

I have one, full page laminated and easily reachable in the passenger
door pouch..... in the real deal, it's really of no use...My answers
to Ol Shy and Bashful below.

On Jun 17, 5:46 pm, "Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote:

Do YOU have one?

Yes, but in the real deal emergency, valuable time wasted reaching for
it and getting oriented to where to start reading.

Do you rehearse it or practice it while the pressure is off? If not, why not?

No, too many variables and too many situations and most importantly,
not like the real deal.

What do you use for immediate action and why?

Trouble shooting first (AVIATE), Landing spot second (NAVIGATE),
declare emergency third (COMMUNICATE).

http://tinyurl.com/6ngvp7for my in flight emergency and how I handled
it.

I consider it utmost important the emergency procedures be memorized,
as when the crap hits the fan, reading a list would be distracting and
may excasperate the problem.

NOW.... if I had a passenger, pulling the list and having them look it
over and read it to ensure I didn't miss anything would be good CRM.
In my case, it wouldn't have done squat.

Not sure who I am replying to so bear with me? The most dangerous
emergency is with an engine problem down below 1000' agl (I refer to
that as the "Red Zone" and below 500' agl as the DARK RED Zone.
Certainly a competent pilot should have the immediate action items
memorized as there is little time to go digging out/reading a
checklist at low altitude with an emergency. And, I certainly am not
going to rely on a non-pilot to read the correct checklist in an
emergency?
For those who don't know me, I've been flying since the mid 50's, over
25,000 hours and nearly half that in ag operations with both FW/RW
worldwide. I've had a number of emergencies, engine failures,
mechanical failures, bird strikes, tree strikes, blown tires, brake
failures, prop failures, fuel problems, etc, etc ad infinitum. In
other words, enough real life experience to base my opinions on with a
reasonable degree of validity. Once you get past the bluster and
bull**** I think you'll find I have some valid points to consider.
I've got a book full of photos I've shot of broken airplanes and only
one of them was mine from very early in my career. I happened to be on
the different scenes and took the photos and/or talked with the pilot/
s involved. Includes a 737 that had a total electrical failure on
rotation from 25L at LGB and he stopped with his wingtip hanging over
the edge of the runway looking down on I-5. Talk about a high pucker
factor?!
My whole purpose here is to make pilots think about possibles and
variables. I fly nearly every day and do 70-80 hours a month
instructing. Even so I see new things weekly and new things to
consider. The potentials for disaster and accidents or incidents are
high here with a high volume of traffic and a mix of civil and
military aircraft. You have to keep safety in mind but temper it with
operational exigencies and realities. My sense of survival always has
me thinking of emergencies and I can't stop playing "what if ...."
I'll be 72 this year and not sure how much longer I'll stay in the
cockpit but I can guarantee I'll be thinking ahead of the aircraft as
long as I am.
Best Regards
Ol S&B

On Jun 17, 10:39*pm, "Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote:

Not sure who I am replying to so bear with me? The most dangerous
emergency is with an engine problem down below 1000' agl (I refer to
that as the "Red Zone" and below 500' agl as the DARK RED Zone.
Certainly a competent pilot should have the immediate action items
memorized as there is little time to go digging out/reading a
checklist at low altitude with an emergency.

I have a one page laminated document front and back taken directly
from the POH. As you indicated anything below 1000 feet, this
document probably will be of no use, but in the document, in big read
letters are the various stages of flight. In blue in 20 point text
are the steps to be taken during an emergency including my emergency
decent, glide and landing speeds.

The document is broken out in a very simple format. Head lines in red.

During take off Ground roll (obviously not designed for pulling out
either by me or passenger - fly the plane)
After lift off (again not designed for pulling out either by me or
passenger - open doors and fly the plane)

And, I certainly am not
going to rely on a non-pilot to read the correct checklist in an
emergency?

In Flight - This is where I would ask a passenger to pull out the list
and read what is on the page so I can continue focusing on aviating.
There are only 14 items and the since I have it committed to memory,
the read back from the passenger would be only a verification that
indeed I remembered everything. After all, as indicated in my link, I
had time, just not by myself to "challenge" my memory.

My whole purpose here is to make pilots think about possibles and
variables.

Good discussion and always good reminders from threads of this nature.

I fly nearly every day and do 70-80 hours a month
instructing. Even so I see new things weekly and new things to
consider. The potentials for disaster and accidents or incidents are
high here with a high volume of traffic and a mix of civil and
military aircraft. You have to keep safety in mind but temper it with
operational exigencies and realities.

Just a measly 820+ under my belt, but I try to think like you, what
if... For IFR, I even include my engine instrumention intermittently
in my scan so that I can catch trends and report it before it becomes
an emergency, keeping that what if scenario in my mind. It only takes
an extra second for some peace of mine that things are running full
tilt.

Just like simulated vs actual IMC conditions, emergencies are the same
in my opinion, while it's nice to practice them, to experience one is
a whole different beast, since now you have the adrenaline factor that
was missing in training.

BOLD PRINT items should be committed to memory..
there is not time to do anything else than practiced items..
Then when you are safe, and still flying, it is time to "wind the watch",
slow things down, get out the checklist and take care of solving the rest of
the problem.

Granted.. 200ft at take off power.. not much to do.. pitch for airspeed,
pick some thing within 20-30 degrees left or right of track that looks
soft.. and never quit flying.. as some one else posted.. fly it as far into
the accident as you can.

EP brief is part of the pre take off checklist, Glider flying... below
200ft.. straight ahead.. 200-500ft AGL, (and we make our students make a
verbal 200ft and 500ft call) a prebrief pitch for airspeed, 235 degree turn
back (45 degree intercept) to land opposite direction. Above 500ft, an
abbreviated traffic pattern and land into the wind.

Even flying twin engines, pre takeoff EP Brief, engine cough before
rotation, both throttles to idle, breaking straight ahead.
After rotation.. there is normally not enough runway left to stop.. based on
pre determined accelerate / stop computation
Everything forward, Both Throtttles full power, Props and Mixture, Pitch for
Vyse (airspeed)
Then, clean up (gear up, flaps up (as POH recommends)),
IDENTIFY, dead foot dead engine
VERIFY, reduce throttle on dead engine.. no change you got the right one
RECTIFY, Prop, dead engine feather, mixture idle cut off

Out here in the hot high altitude west, 40C and 3000MSL, most light twins
are already below their single engine service ceiling before they even start
the take off roll. Plan on landing straight ahead.

BT

"Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote in message
...
Do YOU have one? Do you rehearse it or practice it while the pressure
is off? If not, why not? What do you use for immediate action and why?

Um, that would be the 405. I-5 is about ten miles northeast.

Jim

--
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought
without accepting it."
--Aristotle


Includes a 737 that had a total electrical failure on
rotation from 25L at LGB and he stopped with his wingtip hanging over
the edge of the runway looking down on I-5. Talk about a high pucker
factor?!

If it is a duck, trust me, you are goosed.

Jim

--
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought
without accepting it."
--Aristotle


"Blueskies" wrote in message
...



It is not a goose, it is a DUCK...

Well, I've got just over 40 years and about 5000 hours and only two
emergencies that I considered entertaining, so I've got a bit of a way to
catch you ... but ...

Both emergencies were engine failures, one a double ignition failure and one
a jug that decided it liked it better alone than with its 5 buddies. Those
you can plan for. The first one was at 200 AGL, but since our airport is at
800 AGL from the surrounding neighborhood, the freeway was the optimum
answer, and one that we had planned for from day one. The other one was
from 5000 AGL over the COntinental Divide (now I know why Continental
Engines named it that) with a dragstrip right below me. Both can be planned
for, and if "what the hell do I do when the fan stops" isn't in your head
during those times, then your instructor hasn't been nasty enough with you.

I've had birds on the wings and birds on the glass, but never a bird big
enough to go THROUGH the glass. I've had electrical smoke in the cockpit,
asymmetric flap failure that taught me snap rolls right NOW, and some minor
crap from student blunders that caught me unawares. Nothing that could be
planned for; just take it as it is and do what you need to do to remedy the
situation.

OF COURSE for the common ones and OF COURSE NOT for the ones that are just
plain off the wall.

Jim

--
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought
without accepting it."
--Aristotle



"OF COURSE NOT? Do you just wait to see what happens before you make
any kind of plan?

BTW, in over 50 years I've had more than 15 actual emergencies and any
number of minor ones like birds coming thru the windshield.
Cheers
Ol S&B

On Tue, 17 Jun 2008 20:10:55 -0700 (PDT), A Lieberman
wrote:


Trouble shooting first (AVIATE), Landing spot second (NAVIGATE),
declare emergency third (COMMUNICATE).

aviate
navigate
procrastinate
communicate

dont do your thinking with the mike button pressed :-)
do it before you press it.

fly the aeroplane.
if you dont get time to do anything else ...so what?

Stealth Pilot

On Tue, 17 Jun 2008 20:39:21 -0700 (PDT), "Ol Shy & Bashful"
wrote:


me thinking of emergencies and I can't stop playing "what if ...."
I'll be 72 this year and not sure how much longer I'll stay in the
cockpit but I can guarantee I'll be thinking ahead of the aircraft as


seventy two!!!!!!

is that all. you have at least 27 years left in you before you reach
the age of my hero - the guy who renewed his class 1 instrument rating
at age 99.

remember the words of that australian song ... you're only as old as
the woman you feel :-)

stop worrying - go flying.
Stealth Pilot

That was a Groucho Marx line LONG before the Aussies stole it.

Jim


remember the words of that australian song ... you're only as old as
the woman you feel :-)