Alt.senile.artKramer

In message ,
writes
On Mon, 9 Aug 2004 11:44:01 +0100, "M. J. Powell"
proclaimed:

Of course. When I was a conscript the 10% most intelligent went into the
Air Force and of those the 10% most intelligent went into Signals.

I thought guys went into the Air Force to avoid military service.

Not in this country.

Mike
--
M.J.Powell

(ArtKramr) wrote in message ...
Subject: Alt.senile.artKramer
From: (robert arndt)
Date: 8/9/2004 3:51 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


p.s. Where can I buy a window sticker "I **** on Willie the Wolf"?


I think that statement tells us a lot more about you than about Willie. Guess
you are sad the Nazis lost. Right? Willie did his part in turning your
beloved Nazi Germany into a burning smoking smoldering mass of wreckage And so
did I and proud of every moment of it.

I put that statement there to see how you would respond, and yes, you
responded to the comment about the plane rather than about the two
paragraphs about your disservice to the OTHER airman who served in WW2
and those that are often forgottten who never saw battle but kept the
airmen comfortable and maintained their machines.
I honestly don't care about your plane or a sticker... but it just
goes to show what you value most since you talk of that machine like
it was a person. I pity your family and relatives who have to listen
to your "Wolf" stories in person day-after-day 24/7.
If WW2 is the only thing you've done in life that you admire you are
truly a shallow person. What did you do with the REST of your life
these past 60 years?

Rob

p.s. No, I am not sad the Nazis lost.

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Yubject: Alt.senile.artKramer
From: (robert arndt)
Date: 8/9/2004 5:46 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

(ArtKramr) wrote in message
...
Subject: Alt.senile.artKramer
From: (robert arndt)
Date: 8/9/2004 3:51 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


p.s. Where can I buy a window sticker "I **** on Willie the Wolf"?


I think that statement tells us a lot more about you than about Willie.
Guess
you are sad the Nazis lost. Right? Willie did his part in turning your
beloved Nazi Germany into a burning smoking smoldering mass of wreckage
And so
did I and proud of every moment of it.

I put that statement there to see how you would respond, and yes, you
responded to the comment about the plane rather than about the two
paragraphs about your disservice to the OTHER airman who served in WW2
and those that are often forgottten who never saw battle but kept the
airmen comfortable and maintained their machines.
I honestly don't care about your plane or a sticker... but it just
goes to show what you value most since you talk of that machine like
it was a person. I pity your family and relatives who have to listen
to your "Wolf" stories in person day-after-day 24/7.
If WW2 is the only thing you've done in life that you admire you are
truly a shallow person. What did you do with the REST of your life
these past 60 years?

Rob

Senior Vice President Creative Supervisor J. Walter Thompson Inc. NY.20 years

Contributing Editor Modern Photography Magazine 10 years,

Want more loser?



Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

robert arndt wrote:


IIRC, the B-26 was a deathtrap that killed more airmen in accidents
than in battle. Art raves on about it forever as if that aircraft
alone won the war which is garbage. And to make matters worse he
constantly talks about the bravery of the B-26 crews as if all the
other Allied airmen were ****, not to mention Luftwaffe pilots and
crews which kicked ass over anything Art or his crew ever did.

I think that when you experience stuff like what Art did
during the war you get a fondness for what got you through
it alive - be it an airplane, tank, ship. Or your friends!

You don't have to go to war to feel a certain closeness to
people or machines, but surviving a war should make that
closeness so much, well, closer. :-)
ANY team effort brings people closer toghether - with
each other and with their equipment.

What I'm saying is, whatever the merits of the B-26, real
or imagined, I can understand Art's feelings for it!

And as for Arts postings: I read his wartime stories with
great interest. We don't share all views, but so what?
And I have yet to catch hime with what I believe to be a lie.

Just my 2 cents
Asbjorn
--
To reach me by e-mail, please use _sheridan at babcon dot org_.

Subject: Alt.senile.artKramer
From: Do not answer
Date: 8/10/2004 2:12 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

robert arndt wrote:


IIRC, the B-26 was a deathtrap that killed more airmen in accidents
than in battle. Art raves on about it forever as if that aircraft
alone won the war which is garbage. And to make matters worse he
constantly talks about the bravery of the B-26 crews as if all the
other Allied airmen were ****, not to mention Luftwaffe pilots and
crews which kicked ass over anything Art or his crew ever did.

I think that when you experience stuff like what Art did
during the war you get a fondness for what got you through
it alive - be it an airplane, tank, ship. Or your friends!

You don't have to go to war to feel a certain closeness to
people or machines, but surviving a war should make that
closeness so much, well, closer. :-)
ANY team effort brings people closer toghether - with
each other and with their equipment.

What I'm saying is, whatever the merits of the B-26, real
or imagined, I can understand Art's feelings for it!

And as for Arts postings: I read his wartime stories with
great interest. We don't share all views, but so what?
And I have yet to catch hime with what I believe to be a lie.

Just my 2 cents
Asbjorn
--
To reach me by e-mail, please use _sheridan at babcon dot org_.



Thank you. It is nice to have all this work appreciated.


..


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

ArtKramr wrote:

"JUST" DOING THE SHOOTING AND DING. "JUST?" You are an imbecile.

Well, your inuation of "just loading weapons" is just as ludicrous. Exactly how
many weapons would you have dropped on Europe if no one had loaded them?


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

Date: 8/10/2004 4:25 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

(ArtKramr) wrote in message
...
Subject: Alt.senile.artKramer
From: (Michael)
Date: 8/9/2004 3:15 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

mmm, and here I always thought war was about standing up, making
sacrifice, working together, and everyone doing their part for the
good of their country. At least that's impression I've gotten from
WWII vets who aren't in such a big hurry as you to pat themselves on
the back.

~Michael


So you yourself have zero experience in combat. Right? Figures.

I may have zero combat experience, but I do have enough sense to
appreciate *everyone's* service and sacrifice for this country during
times of war (and peace), not just those that were doing the shooting
and dying.

~Michael

Forget it, Michael, Art has no respect for those who put him in the nose of
that B-26. I get the impression he actually thinks he could have single
handedly done everything needed to get that heap in the air and on target. Just
think how much manpower we could have saved if aircrewmen did additional duties
as MPs, cooks, supply, BB stackers etc.

What Art refuses to recognize is the ONLY way he could have seen combat is if
there were other people who made it possible. Therefore he feels free to
denigrate other servicemen who served just as ably as he did.

Personally all his putting down non combat servicemen makes me seriously
question if he ever served at all. He is so self centered it is obvious he
never learned teamwork.

What saddens me is how he even puts down other combat vets.

I have yet to figure out how his combat experience is more important mine. I
guess I will never know.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

ArtKramr wrote:

"JUST" DOING THE SHOOTING AND DING. "JUST?" You are an imbecile.

Well, your inuation of "just loading weapons" is just as ludicrous. Exactly
how
many weapons would you have dropped on Europe if no one had loaded them?


BUFDRVR


Go drive your Buff.

Nice retort...and I wish I could.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"