Requirement to fly departure procedures

Well, I just wanted to ensure I wasn't breaking any FAR, so naturally
I looked in the FARs. The departure procedure can take you miles out
of your way, so yes, I'll forgo the obstacle protection when I can
clearly manoeuvre on a good weather day
Stan

On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 20:46:10 GMT, "Bob Gardner"
wrote:

The regulations are probably the worst place to look for answers to
procedural questions. Try reading AIM 5-2-6 in its entirety. That "immediate
turn" should be no lower than 400' agl. Second, you are forgoing the
obstacle protection afforded by the DP. Not real wise IMHO.

Bob Gardner

wrote in message
.. .
I was always under the assumption that if my atc clearance received on
the ground was direct to a fix, I was free to forgo the departure
procedure and do an immediate turn after takeoff. I note that FAR
91.129, Operations in class D airspace states that:

"(g) Departures. No person may operate an aircraft departing from an
airport except in compliance with the following:
(1) Each pilot must comply with any departure procedures established
for that airport by the FAA."

So how, on a good weather delay, can one avoid flying the departure
procedure? Note the word "established" vice "assigned"

Stan

In my Jepp plate binder, in addition to the published DPs, there are
obstacle departure procedures for every airport with an approach, including
those without the traditional DPs.

Here's an example of an obstacle DP for Red Bluff, CA (KRBL) which does not
have a published DP:

"Rwy 15, climb direct RBL VOR. Rwy 33, climbing right turn direct RBL VOR.
All aircraft departing RBL R-091 clockwise to RBL R-200 climb on course.
All others climb in RBL VOR holding pattern (hold south, right turns, 341
degree inbound) to depart RBL at or above: RBL R-021 clockwise to RBL R-060
4500', RBL R-061 clockwise to RBL R-090 2100', RBL R-201 clockwise to RBL
R-270 4000', RBL R-271 clockwise to R-020 2400'.

Some are much briefer, and others more complicated.

My old CFII turned me on to these, and said they are also in the NACO TERPS
books somewhere, but being a Jepp-ster, I've never seen one. The verbiage
sure sounds FAA-ish though. From a regulatory standpoint, I've never seen
the obstacle DPs referenced. I wonder if they count towards that 'any
departure procedures' you saw in 91.129

If launching IFR, even with terrain data in the cockpit on a good weather
day, I'm going to follow the obstacle DP, especially at an unfamiliar
airport.


wrote in message
...
I was always under the assumption that if my atc clearance received on
the ground was direct to a fix, I was free to forgo the departure
procedure and do an immediate turn after takeoff. I note that FAR
91.129, Operations in class D airspace states that:

"(g) Departures. No person may operate an aircraft departing from an
airport except in compliance with the following:
(1) Each pilot must comply with any departure procedures established
for that airport by the FAA."

So how, on a good weather delay, can one avoid flying the departure
procedure? Note the word "established" vice "assigned"

Stan

wrote
I was always under the assumption that if my atc clearance received on
the ground was direct to a fix, I was free to forgo the departure
procedure and do an immediate turn after takeoff. I note that FAR
91.129, Operations in class D airspace states that:

"(g) Departures. No person may operate an aircraft departing from an
airport except in compliance with the following:
(1) Each pilot must comply with any departure procedures established
for that airport by the FAA."

So how, on a good weather delay, can one avoid flying the departure
procedure? Note the word "established" vice "assigned"

You are ignoring 91.129(b)
(b) Deviations. An operator may deviate from any provision of this
section under the provisions of an ATC authorization issued by the ATC
facility having jurisdiction over the airspace concerned. ATC may
authorize a deviation on a continuing basis or for an individual
flight, as appropriate.

Your clearance direct to the fix constitutes ATC authorization to
deviate from 91.129(g)(1) for this individual flight.

Michael

Please do not send email replies to this posting. They are checked
only sporadically, and are filtered heavily by Hotmail. If you need
to email me, the correct address is crw69dog and the domain name is
this old airplane dot com, but remove the numbers and format the
address in the usual way.

Bingo, Michael, that explains it. thanks
Stan

On 7 Oct 2003 16:22:41 -0700, (Michael) wrote:

wrote
I was always under the assumption that if my atc clearance received on
the ground was direct to a fix, I was free to forgo the departure
procedure and do an immediate turn after takeoff. I note that FAR
91.129, Operations in class D airspace states that:

"(g) Departures. No person may operate an aircraft departing from an
airport except in compliance with the following:
(1) Each pilot must comply with any departure procedures established
for that airport by the FAA."

So how, on a good weather delay, can one avoid flying the departure
procedure? Note the word "established" vice "assigned"

You are ignoring 91.129(b)
(b) Deviations. An operator may deviate from any provision of this
section under the provisions of an ATC authorization issued by the ATC
facility having jurisdiction over the airspace concerned. ATC may
authorize a deviation on a continuing basis or for an individual
flight, as appropriate.

Your clearance direct to the fix constitutes ATC authorization to
deviate from 91.129(g)(1) for this individual flight.

Michael

Please do not send email replies to this posting. They are checked
only sporadically, and are filtered heavily by Hotmail. If you need
to email me, the correct address is crw69dog and the domain name is
this old airplane dot com, but remove the numbers and format the
address in the usual way.

"Michael" wrote in message
om...
wrote
I was always under the assumption that if my atc clearance received on
the ground was direct to a fix, I was free to forgo the departure
procedure and do an immediate turn after takeoff. I note that FAR
91.129, Operations in class D airspace states that:

"(g) Departures. No person may operate an aircraft departing from an
airport except in compliance with the following:
(1) Each pilot must comply with any departure procedures established
for that airport by the FAA."

So how, on a good weather delay, can one avoid flying the departure
procedure? Note the word "established" vice "assigned"

You are ignoring 91.129(b)
(b) Deviations. An operator may deviate from any provision of this
section under the provisions of an ATC authorization issued by the ATC
facility having jurisdiction over the airspace concerned. ATC may
authorize a deviation on a continuing basis or for an individual
flight, as appropriate.

Your clearance direct to the fix constitutes ATC authorization to
deviate from 91.129(g)(1) for this individual flight.

Michael


What if I'm cleared to the fix but *want* to fly the departure procedure,
which takes me to the fix after some turns? Seems like I remember someone
quoting (I think from the ATC handbook) something like "... compliance with
a published departure procedure is at the discretion of the pilot...".
Where does that fit into this?

Thanks,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

John Clonts wrote:



What if I'm cleared to the fix but *want* to fly the departure procedure,
which takes me to the fix after some turns? Seems like I remember someone
quoting (I think from the ATC handbook) something like "... compliance with
a published departure procedure is at the discretion of the pilot...".
Where does that fit into this?

It is at your discretion. The original poster asked if he had to fly a
DP on a good weather day when ATC says preoceed direct and the DP goes
out of the way. The answer is go direct. Terrain clearance is a nonfactor.

"John Clonts" wrote in message
...

What if I'm cleared to the fix but *want* to fly the departure procedure,
which takes me to the fix after some turns? Seems like I remember someone
quoting (I think from the ATC handbook) something like "... compliance
with a published departure procedure is at the discretion of the
pilot...".
Where does that fit into this?


If a published IFR departure procedure is not included in an ATC clearance,
compliance with such a procedure is the pilot's prerogative. I'd advise the
tower of your intentions though, it could be rather unexpected on a good
weather day.

"Michael" wrote in message
om...

You are ignoring 91.129(b)
(b) Deviations. An operator may deviate from any provision of thisFAR
91.129
section under the provisions of an ATC authorization issued by the ATC
facility having jurisdiction over the airspace concerned. ATC may
authorize a deviation on a continuing basis or for an individual
flight, as appropriate.

Your clearance direct to the fix constitutes ATC authorization to
deviate from 91.129(g)(1) for this individual flight.


You're ignoring FAR 91.129(a):
(a) General. Unless otherwise authorized or required by the ATC facility
having jurisdiction over the Class D airspace area, each person operating an
aircraft in Class D airspace must comply with the applicable provisions of
this section. In addition, each person must comply with §§91.126 and 91.127.
For the purpose of this section, the primary airport is the airport for
which the Class D airspace area is designated. A satellite airport is any
other airport within the Class D airspace area.

pstanley55 wrote:
I was always under the assumption that if my atc clearance received on
the ground was direct to a fix, I was free to forgo the departure
procedure and do an immediate turn after takeoff. I note that FAR
91.129, Operations in class D airspace states that:

"(g) Departures. No person may operate an aircraft departing from an
airport except in compliance with the following:
(1) Each pilot must comply with any departure procedures established
for that airport by the FAA."

So how, on a good weather delay, can one avoid flying the departure
procedure? Note the word "established" vice "assigned"

I use "Norcal Departure, Cherokee 123, requesting a turn to heading 100, we
can maintain our own terrain seperation." Works everytime - they get me on
my way, and I get out of their airspace quicker. This is especially useful
when flying to Monterey and both San Jose and Monterey are socked in, but
clear between. ATC gives you "climb and maintain 7000" when only 3000' is
required (if you know where the tower is). In this case I say "I'd like to
maintain 4000' - I'll maintain our own terrain seperation".

Hilton

Hilton wrote:

I use "Norcal Departure, Cherokee 123, requesting a turn to heading 100, we
can maintain our own terrain seperation." Works everytime - they get me on
my way, and I get out of their airspace quicker. This is especially useful
when flying to Monterey and both San Jose and Monterey are socked in, but
clear between. ATC gives you "climb and maintain 7000" when only 3000' is
required (if you know where the tower is). In this case I say "I'd like to
maintain 4000' - I'll maintain our own terrain seperation".

Hilton

That's all good except they can't clear you to maintain 4,000' in an area where
their MVA is higher. They can clear you to climb VFR to maintain their MVA, or
higher.