Soreness after flights, and rudders

Mxsmanic wrote:
Robert M. Gary writes:

No, but it takes no effort to slide your feet up. Students will try to
ride the brakes otherwise. That's one of the things we CFIs are always
looking for during taxi.

They deliberately ride the brakes, or they just ride them without
realizing it?

50/50.

-Robert

Mxsmanic wrote:
VH-UNR writes:

OK. I was under the impression that the entire pedal pivoted around a
point at the bottom. It's hard to tell from photos.

No, the top part is the brake and is hinged to the pedal.

Are rudder pedals about the same height as pedals in a car, or are
they higher up? They look higher up in photos, such that you actually
have to lift your foot in order to put it squarely on the pedal (which
is rarely necessary in a car).

No, they are much taller. Yes, you need to lift your foot to use the
brake if you have your heals on the floor (unless you are Shaq).

-Robert

BTW: After a long flight its usually your butt that hurts as well as
your head from the headset. I've done 7 hour legs in my Mooney, usually
when trying to clear Mexican customs in Southern Mexico (I don't clear
in Northern Mexico because it takes more time and you can't fly at
night in Mexico so you can get "stuck"). In Southern Mexico, you can
land right at sunset and still have time for customs.

-Robert

Or heel brakes, or a Piper with a hand lever.


"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
ups.com...
|
| Mxsmanic wrote:
| VH-UNR writes:
|
| OK. I was under the impression that the entire pedal
pivoted around a
| point at the bottom. It's hard to tell from photos.
|
| No, the top part is the brake and is hinged to the pedal.
|
| Are rudder pedals about the same height as pedals in a
car, or are
| they higher up? They look higher up in photos, such
that you actually
| have to lift your foot in order to put it squarely on
the pedal (which
| is rarely necessary in a car).
|
| No, they are much taller. Yes, you need to lift your foot
to use the
| brake if you have your heals on the floor (unless you are
Shaq).
|
| -Robert
|

Why don't you go take a couple of lessons and you'll find your answers.

I used to fly 14-18hrs missions with no problems, 2-3 times a week.
But then I could get up and move around every few hours. That ejection seat
did get hard after a while.

In stable flight, rest your feet on the floor.
With proper positioning, heels on the floor for landing and flying keeps
your toes off the brakes.
BT


"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Does flying leave you sore if you haven't flown in a while or if you
are new to flying? I'm thinking of muscle fatigue from being in an
unusual position for long periods, and in particular I'm wondering if
keeping one's feet on rudder pedals for hours at a time leads to any
soreness afterwards. Or do you even keep your feet on the pedals all
the time? Since apparently most autopilots don't use the rudder, even
running on autopilot might not eliminate the need to have feet on the
rudder (?). And if pushing the pedals forward applies the brakes,
does this mean that you have to hold your foot back whenever it's
resting on the pedal? Does it hurt anything to apply the brakes in
flight?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
...
Or heel brakes, or a Piper with a hand lever.

Or a Liberty with finger tip brake levers...

Jay B

"BT" wrote in
:

Why don't you go take a couple of lessons and you'll find your
answers.

Been there done this with this question.....

I can imagine Mx using the whiniest voice possible.....

It's too dangerous.....
It's too expensive....

It's too..... (you fill in the blank).

We go in circles with this guy.......

Allen

T o d d P a t t i s t writes:

I think most airplane pilots here will say no. When I fly
gliders, my average flight duration for some years was 5
hours, with some flights of 12 hours or more, and I always
had very sore calves after each flight. I used to call them
"rudder legs."

How did your calves get sore? When were you flexing them (seems like
they'd be used mostly to pivot the pedals for brakes, no?)?

And you must have been catherized before take-off if you could fly for
12 hours at a stretch.

A racing glider is designed with minimum drag in mind, which
means reducing the wetted area of the rudder. That means
reduced effectiveness. At the same time, the wings are very
long (more efficient - lower drag) and the glider is making
steep turns and rolling those big wings in and out of
thermals at low speeds. I would hit the rudder stops
regularly when trying to coordinate thermal turns, and
counteract adverse yaw. The rudder was being worked
constantly.

Did you use your entire leg to work the rudder, or did you have your
heels on the floor and work it just by moving your feet, or what?

Plus, when you were low over some farmers field while
working up in a thermal, you wanted to be perfect ...

Because ... ?

... and it
was easier to control the rudder effectively when you
applied a little bit of force on each pedal, and applied a
bit more on the side you needed. That counterforce
technique could get to be an unconscious habit.

You mean keeping both pedals under pressure, so that you had more
precise control of movement?

Maybe this is naïve, but: Would there be any advantage to rudder
pedals you could clip into, like bicycle pedals? Then you could pull
and push, which might work your legs more evenly and reduce fatigue
(?).

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

T o d d P a t t i s t wrote:
"Robert M. Gary" wrote:

I used to fly an Aeronca with a heal brake and a puck tailwheel. About
1/2 the landings required brake to stay aligned (since the puck has
such little friction with the ground), but the heal brake is basically
either on or off.

My '46 Aeronca Champ has heel brakes and solid tailwheel.
I've only touched the brakes once on landing. They are also
fully proportional.

On mine anything more than a small correction would just cause the
pedal to go to the floor and brake was required. Brake was just on/off.
Landing on grass, it handled much better though. I always thought about
getting a Scott tailwheel for it. I had a Scott on the C-140 and never
had that issue, tailwheel steering was very effective. Come to think of
it, the J-3 was a solid wheel too and I never had that issue in it
either.

-Robert

Good idea. I was surprised she didn't pick up on it. I must've been her
first.

Unless you have heel brakes. I don't know if any certified planes have them,
but my ultralight did. And the rudder pedals worked in reverse.

mike

"VH-UNR" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hence Why we say, heels on the floor. I get the students to say it out
loud as they line up.