Flight Following question

Jim Carter wrote:




Do you have any quick references for that Milen? I've never heard of an
IFR flight plan with "VFR" in the enroute altitude box. Or are you
referring to filing VFR-on-top? If so, that's a lot different than just
requesting flight following for VFR flights.

OTP is similar but different. OTP is also an altitude you can file but
you'll get an IFR clearance.

A Lieberma wrote:



Sounds to me that what he is doing is fudging the system by filing an IFR flight plan
and annotating it with VFR references in the remarks.


No, he puts "VFR" into the altitude box, not in the remarks.




I know when you select the IFR box, it does generate a flight strip to ATC, and that
would be an IFR filing naturally.

Selecting VFR does not generate a flight strip to ATC,


Putting VFR in the altitude box does generate a strip to ATC, 30 minutes
prior to the P time.

wrote:



I've got a VFR friend who always files (but doesn't open) an IFR flight plan for longer cross-countries. That way, the
flight is in the system for the whole route, so it's (at least alegedly) easier for the controller to find. Not sure how much
truth there is to that, but it does make some sense.

Doesn't do a damn thing. When an aircraft takes off VFR with an IFR on
file the ground controller throws away the IFR strip. He was the only
guy with that strip. No facility would ever generate that strip unless
he actually takes off IFR or he calls to activate the IFR flight plan,
then every succeeding facility would generate one. Two hours after the
P time an unopened IFR flight plan is automatically erased from the system.

Stan Prevost wrote:

As Milen says, check IFR (it is not an IFR flight plan, that is just a
routing flag for ATC vs FSS), put VFR or VFR/120 for 12,000 feet or whatever
your filed altitude is.


Use a VFR altitude. Such as VFR/125, VFR/075, etc.

A Lieberma wrote:

"Stan Prevost" wrote in
:


As Milen says, check IFR (it is not an IFR flight plan,


Call it what you want, but the form on top says FAA Flight plan.

1.Type is either VFR or IFR.

If you select IFR, you are filing a IFR flight plan. No grey zone about
it, all you are doing is fudging the system to get a plan routed to ATC.

VFR flight plans are not routed to ATC period.

You're wrong. Do it as he says and I get a strip printed for me. That
is the exact procedure I use when I enter a flight plan into the system
for a pilot. There's no IFR/VFR box to check so the altitude
information is the only way the computer knows if you are IFR or getting
VFR flight following.

Newps wrote in
:

Putting VFR in the altitude box does generate a strip to ATC, 30
minutes prior to the P time.

But he is SELECTING in box 1.type IFR. I was always told that if you
select VFR in box 1, no strip is generated to ATC, thus an IFR filing.

Altutude is box 7 on the FAA flight plan.

Allen

On 12/9/2006 8:16 PM, Jim Carter wrote the following:

My question for the group is: is there a special terminology that should
be used when requesting full-enroute flight following? Or, why do some
controllers provide that service automatically and others seemingly only
under duress? (I don’t think it is a controller issue, however it might
be a facility policy issue).


Normally here in Minneapolis I say something like "... requesting traffic
advisories to KXXX, six thousand, five hundred." And I get a through code in
the 4xxx block.

To do this, I think my local ground control guy (KMIC) has to telephone the KMSP
TRACON for the code. Maybe the call goes to a desk rather than to a
possibly-busy controller where there could be a workload issue?

One time out of Ames, IA talking to the Des Moines TRACON I got a local code
(0xxx). When I was leveled out I asked the TRACON controller "Can you give me a
code that will get me to Minneapolis?" Got a "stand by" and in a couple of
minutes he called back and gave me the code. At the appropriate time he then
handed me off to Center, no problem.

Newps wrote in
:

You're wrong. Do it as he says and I get a strip printed for me.
That is the exact procedure I use when I enter a flight plan into the
system for a pilot. There's no IFR/VFR box to check so the altitude
information is the only way the computer knows if you are IFR or
getting VFR flight following.

Please see the FAA flight plan form the pilot completes. See box 1. type.

It's either VFR ir IFR.

If I check IFR on 1.type of the FAA flight plan, I get a center control
number that is filed into the ATC system via DUATS.

I DO NOT get a center control number when I FILE VFR. I get a remark the
plan is forwarded to the servicing FSS.

Maybe FSS forwards something to you when I file through FSS, but when I
file via DUATS, it's a very distinct difference on the electronic response.

There may not be any IFR / VFR box on your end, but there sure is on the
pilot's end filing the plan.

I also notice that the website Flight Aware NEVER picks up my VFR flight
plan filings, where as when I file IFR, it shows scheduled one hour before,
so I know there is some meat to my theory in that VFR selection on the FAA
flight plan does not get passed on to the ATC system.

Allen

A Lieberma wrote:
Newps wrote in
:


Putting VFR in the altitude box does generate a strip to ATC, 30
minutes prior to the P time.


But he is SELECTING in box 1.type IFR.

Irrelavant for ATC. The altitude box takes precedence.


I was always told that if you
select VFR in box 1, no strip is generated to ATC, thus an IFR filing.

That's true. It's a routing question. We are a regional cargo hub for
UPS and DHL. We have lots of small aircraft running cargo. Twin
Cessnas, Barons, Beech 99's and 1900's, Metroliners, etc. They all have
prefiled IFR flight plans that spit out the same time every day. They
always go VFR when they can, which is about 90% of the time. For those
who's ops specs require flight following we simply change the altitude
on their IFR strip to a VFR one. Change 120 to VFR/125. The altitude
box holds 7 characters. When he tags up on the radar there is now a V
on the tag indicating he is VFR.



Altutude is box 7 on the FAA flight plan.

Same as on the FAA computer controllers use.

Mitty wrote:



To do this, I think my local ground control guy (KMIC) has to telephone
the KMSP TRACON for the code. Maybe the call goes to a desk rather than
to a possibly-busy controller where there could be a workload issue?

It depends. Does MIC have a DBRITE? If so then they more than likely
will have something set up with MSP so MIC can get their own codes so a
call doesn't have to be made.




One time out of Ames, IA talking to the Des Moines TRACON I got a local
code (0xxx). When I was leveled out I asked the TRACON controller "Can
you give me a code that will get me to Minneapolis?" Got a "stand by"
and in a couple of minutes he called back and gave me the code. At the
appropriate time he then handed me off to Center, no problem.

He didn't call MSP, he simply input a VFR flight plan into the FDIO
which spit out a center code.