Boundaries between Approach/Departure and Center

They are generally considered confidential, although you may obtain the
information under the freedom of information act.

Viperdoc wrote:

They are generally considered confidential, although you may obtain the
information under the freedom of information act.

They aren't confidential. If they were I would know, some documents and
information is and we are told that. These aren't. It's not really
useful information if I gave you a map of the various boundaries.
Individual sectors within centers and approach controls are combined and
decombined at regular and irregular intervals. Plus any two controllers
can get together and agree to do just about anything for a given amount
of time, thus making any published boundaries irrelavant. We do that
virtually every night with Salt Lake center. The call goes like this,
from the ZLC controller to the BIL approach controller....."Down to 9
til 5?" I answer..."Yep." Thus circumventing months and months of
careful planning and negotiating between untold numbers of high level
management and their staffs. Our letter of agreement states that all
IFR aircraft will be at or descending to 13,000. That's too
constricting so center wants approval to go down to 9,000 and they don't
want to call for each one and I certainly don't want to have to answer a
call for each request. So I could show you many maps of carefully drawn
boundaries but they are almost never used in that manner.

Newps:

Sorry, I was sending some poorly disguised cynicism to the village idiot,
hoping he would go away.

I am aware of the LOAs and general ATC structure.

Thanks.
"Newps" wrote in message
. ..


Viperdoc wrote:

They are generally considered confidential, although you may obtain the
information under the freedom of information act.

They aren't confidential. If they were I would know, some documents and
information is and we are told that. These aren't. It's not really
useful information if I gave you a map of the various boundaries.
Individual sectors within centers and approach controls are combined and
decombined at regular and irregular intervals. Plus any two controllers
can get together and agree to do just about anything for a given amount of
time, thus making any published boundaries irrelavant. We do that
virtually every night with Salt Lake center. The call goes like this,
from the ZLC controller to the BIL approach controller....."Down to 9 til
5?" I answer..."Yep." Thus circumventing months and months of careful
planning and negotiating between untold numbers of high level management
and their staffs. Our letter of agreement states that all IFR aircraft
will be at or descending to 13,000. That's too constricting so center
wants approval to go down to 9,000 and they don't want to call for each
one and I certainly don't want to have to answer a call for each request.
So I could show you many maps of carefully drawn boundaries but they are
almost never used in that manner.

Newps wrote:


Viperdoc wrote:

They are generally considered confidential, although you may obtain
the information under the freedom of information act.


They aren't confidential. If they were I would know, some documents and
information is and we are told that. These aren't. It's not really
useful information if I gave you a map of the various boundaries.
Individual sectors within centers and approach controls are combined and
decombined at regular and irregular intervals. Plus any two controllers
can get together and agree to do just about anything for a given amount
of time, thus making any published boundaries irrelavant. We do that
virtually every night with Salt Lake center. The call goes like this,
from the ZLC controller to the BIL approach controller....."Down to 9
til 5?" I answer..."Yep." Thus circumventing months and months of
careful planning and negotiating between untold numbers of high level
management and their staffs. Our letter of agreement states that all
IFR aircraft will be at or descending to 13,000. That's too
constricting so center wants approval to go down to 9,000 and they don't
want to call for each one and I certainly don't want to have to answer a
call for each request. So I could show you many maps of carefully drawn
boundaries but they are almost never used in that manner.

For whatever it's worth, the electronic map provided with JeppView has
center boundaries. Those sometimes can be useful for flight planning
purposes. Sector boundaries have little value to pilots. And, as you
say, approach control boundaries and sectors vary vertically to the
point that is also useless information to a pilot.

Viperdoc writes:

They are generally considered confidential, although you may obtain the
information under the freedom of information act.

Why are they considered confidential? Are there terrorists eager to
know where one controller's airspace ends and another's airspace
begins?

--
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Mxsmanic wrote:
What determines the boundaries between airspace managed by an en-route
ATC center and an approach or departure center? I don't see any clear
indication of which is which on sectionals. There are boxes saying
who to contact for approach, but nothing that shows where the handoffs
between terminal control and center usually occur. Is there a general
rule?

Why do you care if you're talking to approach or center?

-Robert, CFII

Robert M. Gary writes:

Why do you care if you're talking to approach or center?

I want to know whom to contact if I'm not already in communication
with ATC.

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Call Microsoft.

Mxsmanic wrote:
Robert M. Gary writes:

Why do you care if you're talking to approach or center?

I want to know whom to contact if I'm not already in communication
with ATC.

That's only an issue in the sim world. I guess you have to worry if the
controller is taking a dump when you call? Of course I guess he may
have his laptop with him.

-Robert

Robert M. Gary writes:

That's only an issue in the sim world.

No, it's an issue in the real world, too, if you are flying VFR.

--
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