Airplane shot down in Colombia

Americans tend to have a conciliatory tone toward drug smugglers, who they
consider to be involved in peddling of "social vices" and thus not really
bad guys. This is very removed from the truth. The FARC bandits are mafia
hardliners who control half of Colombia. Shooting them down is socially
constructive, and easily the right thing to do. It's like that.

Aside the socio-political context, I agree it's hard for any pilot to see a
plane shot down . . .

On Sun, 01 Jul 2007 01:04:36 -0700, Airbus wrote:

Shooting them down is socially
constructive, and easily the right thing to do. It's like that.

Most of the nations to south of the U.S.A. believe in expediency. It's
much less expensive than a cumbersome due process system.

Police states are an extremely effective and economical way to control
crime.

--
Dallas

"Dallas" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 01 Jul 2007 01:04:36 -0700, Airbus wrote:

Shooting them down is socially
constructive, and easily the right thing to do. It's like that.

Most of the nations to south of the U.S.A. believe in expediency. It's
much less expensive than a cumbersome due process system.

Police states are an extremely effective and economical way to control
crime.


I can't reconcile your last two statements with the high level of organized
crime in South/Central America....

KB

--
Dallas

"Dallas" wrote in message
.. .

Police states are an extremely effective and economical way to control
crime.


Unfortunately they usually control criminal activity (and corruption) by
running it. We could accomplish the same thing (and save the
citizen/taxpayer some big money?) by subcontracting police, and justice (and
tax collection) work to the Mafia and the Hell's Angels. I doubt that the
citizen/taxpayers would consider it a bargain. Of course some would suggest
that we already have.

Kyle Boatright wrote:

If (big, big, IF in Central/South America) the local authorities on the
destination end of the flight would jump in and grab everyone at the
delivery point, that would seem to be a more just and effective treatment..
Of course, the local policia at the destination are probably getting a
payoff and might not be happy with anyone putting a hurt on their
pocketbook...

I agree that catching them upon landing is the preferred course of
action, but given all of the talk about the border it is pretty obvious
that they were heading to a "safe haven" country. If that really was
the case (I'm only assuming that given the context), then I have no
problem at all with the shoot-down.

Matt

If the video was widely distributed, it might encourage other pilots
in the ferry business to think about dropping gear and flaps and
following the fighter to an airport.

Recently, Matt Whiting posted:

Kyle Boatright wrote:

If (big, big, IF in Central/South America) the local authorities on
the destination end of the flight would jump in and grab everyone at
the delivery point, that would seem to be a more just and effective
treatment.. Of course, the local policia at the destination are
probably getting a payoff and might not be happy with anyone putting
a hurt on their pocketbook...

I agree that catching them upon landing is the preferred course of
action, but given all of the talk about the border it is pretty
obvious that they were heading to a "safe haven" country. If that
really was the case (I'm only assuming that given the context), then
I have no problem at all with the shoot-down.

I don't think that the death penalty is warranted solely on the basis of
suspicion. If this was a _known_ drug trafficing aircraft, why weren't
arrests made at the point of departure, the only place that such a fact
_could_ be known?

Neil

On 2007-06-30 07:44:40 -0700, Aviv Hod
said:

Summary: US and Colombian agents shoot down a smuggling suspect:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=063_1182300981

This is shocking to me on so many levels - extrajudicial execution on
tape with Americans involved. Drug smuggling is a problem and all, but
this isn't like a police car chase where there is clear danger to
bystanders. Couldn't the authorities avoid deadly force?!? From the
tape it seems like the authorities were very concerned about the
proximity of the border but even if they would have had to let the
plane get away, that is no excuse for their trigger finger to do the
police work!

Does anyone have any more context on this incident? Anyone know how
common this is? There was a family of missionaries that was shot down
a few years back in a similar anti-drug operation. Makes me sick.

-Aviv

The United States is signatory to treaties prohibiting firing upon
civilian aircraft, but regularly violates these treaties. This is
behavior that we used to associate with the worst aspects of the Soviet
Union and other rogue states.

On the other hand, these drug dealers are conducting what is basically
a civil war against the government of Columbia, attempting to set up a
criminal government providing a safe haven for all manner of gangsters
and thugs.

So it is a hard question. Do you let the drug dealers take over a whole
country, or do you violate international standards of behavior to
prevent it? Personally, I have grave concerns about becoming what we
are trying to stop.

--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

The United States is signatory to treaties prohibiting firing upon
civilian aircraft, but regularly violates these treaties. This is
behavior that we used to associate with the worst aspects of the Soviet
Union and other rogue states.

Just curious: When has the US ever fired on civilian aircraft?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On 2007-06-30 21:12:44 -0700, Jay Honeck said:

The United States is signatory to treaties prohibiting firing upon
civilian aircraft, but regularly violates these treaties. This is
behavior that we used to associate with the worst aspects of the Soviet
Union and other rogue states.

Just curious: When has the US ever fired on civilian aircraft?

Here we have a thread on the US helping to shoot down a civilian
aircraft, and you ask that question. Remember, too, that a few years
ago the Bush administration asked for funds in the Coast Guard
Reauthorization Act to shoot down suspected drug dealers within the
borders of the US itself.

The Navy has continually threatened to shoot down private aircraft that
violate its security zones or, in the words of our local Navy PR
officer, they may shoot down aircraft who get "too close" to the
security zone. No one knows what "too close" is. Since I live near such
a zone, I am concerned that if the Navy ever does open fire my house
could be showered with spent ordnance and aircraft debris, or even a
stray missile. When I expressed these concerns to the PR officer, he
said that protecting civilians was not the job of the Navy.


--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor