Shot at/Shot back

We keep bringing up presidents/candidates getting shot at (
"We" includes me, I confess ). But today a related issue
popped into my head.

After all the discussion of Kerry's VN history, I wondered
if we have had any other recent ( last 75 years or so )
presidents or major contenders who have killed somebody in a
personal and particular way. We have had bomb droppers (
GHWB, McGovern ) and Truman's artillery and Ford's AA, but
little close range infantry type experience in our leaders
since Teddy R.

Bob Kerrey would certainly qualify, but he didn't make it
too far in his presidential bid. Bob Dole was in serious
combat, but I don't know if his shooting experience was
aimed or "to whom it may concern".

Maybe I have forgotten something ( not an unusual event )
and maybe it is a silly thing to think about. However, I
think the experience of picking a particular human being and
blowing him away would have quite an effect on somebody.

Bob McKellar

Note due to the nature of news groups: This post is not
intended to disparage or criticize any person or group. I'm
just curious.

: Bob Kerrey would certainly qualify, but he didn't make it
: too far in his presidential bid. Bob Dole was in serious
: combat, but I don't know if his shooting experience was
: aimed or "to whom it may concern".

Well, according to SLA Marshall there is a real question as to
how much shooting in WWII was actually "aimed" at all. ;-)
More seriously, Dole was a 2lt on the front lines with the
10th Mountain Division (presumably infantry branch) when he was wounded
trying to pull his wounded radioman to safety. IIRC from a speech he
gave, he almost died three times (on the battlefield, and two different
times after surgeries stateside). Got a Bronze Star and 2 Purple Hearts
for his efforts.
ISTR he once quipped about how he got assigned to the 10th Mountain
Division -- "I'm from Kansas, and this was the army..."

regards,
-----------------------------------------------------

Steven James Forsberg wrote:

: Bob Kerrey would certainly qualify, but he didn't make it
: too far in his presidential bid. Bob Dole was in serious
: combat, but I don't know if his shooting experience was
: aimed or "to whom it may concern".

Well, according to SLA Marshall there is a real question as to
how much shooting in WWII was actually "aimed" at all. ;-)

That has been my general impression, very little aiming going on.


More seriously, Dole was a 2lt on the front lines with the
10th Mountain Division (presumably infantry branch) when he was wounded
trying to pull his wounded radioman to safety. IIRC from a speech he
gave, he almost died three times (on the battlefield, and two different
times after surgeries stateside). Got a Bronze Star and 2 Purple Hearts
for his efforts.
ISTR he once quipped about how he got assigned to the 10th Mountain
Division -- "I'm from Kansas, and this was the army..."


A distinguished and witty gentlemen, without a doubt.

Bob McKellar

"Bob McKellar" wrote in message
...


Steven James Forsberg wrote:

: Bob Kerrey would certainly qualify, but he didn't make it
: too far in his presidential bid. Bob Dole was in serious
: combat, but I don't know if his shooting experience was
: aimed or "to whom it may concern".

Well, according to SLA Marshall there is a real question as to
how much shooting in WWII was actually "aimed" at all. ;-)

That has been my general impression, very little aiming going on.

Don't buy into Marshall too quickly; his conclusions, and the manner in
which he reached them, have since been brought into serious question.

Brooks



More seriously, Dole was a 2lt on the front lines with the
10th Mountain Division (presumably infantry branch) when he was wounded
trying to pull his wounded radioman to safety. IIRC from a speech he
gave, he almost died three times (on the battlefield, and two different
times after surgeries stateside). Got a Bronze Star and 2 Purple Hearts
for his efforts.
ISTR he once quipped about how he got assigned to the 10th
Mountain
Division -- "I'm from Kansas, and this was the army..."


A distinguished and witty gentlemen, without a doubt.

Bob McKellar

Bob McKellar wrote:


Steven James Forsberg wrote:


: Bob Kerrey would certainly qualify, but he didn't make it
: too far in his presidential bid. Bob Dole was in serious
: combat, but I don't know if his shooting experience was
: aimed or "to whom it may concern".

Well, according to SLA Marshall there is a real question as to
how much shooting in WWII was actually "aimed" at all. ;-)


That has been my general impression, very little aiming going on.


More seriously, Dole was a 2lt on the front lines with the
10th Mountain Division (presumably infantry branch) when he was wounded
trying to pull his wounded radioman to safety. IIRC from a speech he
gave, he almost died three times (on the battlefield, and two different
times after surgeries stateside). Got a Bronze Star and 2 Purple Hearts
for his efforts.
ISTR he once quipped about how he got assigned to the 10th Mountain
Division -- "I'm from Kansas, and this was the army..."



A distinguished and witty gentlemen, without a doubt.

Bob McKellar


They sent him all casts and bandages on a troop train back to Kansas and
when his family went on the train to get him they found that the rest of
the soldiers had been using him as an ashtray.

Joe

Joe Osman wrote:
Bob McKellar wrote:

More seriously, Dole was a 2lt on the front lines with the
10th Mountain Division (presumably infantry branch) when he was wounded
trying to pull his wounded radioman to safety. IIRC from a speech he
gave, he almost died three times (on the battlefield, and two different
times after surgeries stateside). Got a Bronze Star and 2 Purple Hearts
for his efforts.
ISTR he once quipped about how he got assigned to the 10th Mountain
Division -- "I'm from Kansas, and this was the army..."

A distinguished and witty gentlemen, without a doubt.

They sent him all casts and bandages on a troop train back to Kansas and
when his family went on the train to get him they found that the rest of
the soldiers had been using him as an ashtray.

I guess I misplaced my sense of humor. I may not be a Republican, but we were
in the same convoy going to Italy in December 1944, and he deserves better than
to have jokes made about the wounds he sustained for his nation.

George Z.

Joe

George Z. Bush wrote:
Joe Osman wrote:

Bob McKellar wrote:


More seriously, Dole was a 2lt on the front lines with the
10th Mountain Division (presumably infantry branch) when he was wounded
trying to pull his wounded radioman to safety. IIRC from a speech he
gave, he almost died three times (on the battlefield, and two different
times after surgeries stateside). Got a Bronze Star and 2 Purple Hearts
for his efforts.
ISTR he once quipped about how he got assigned to the 10th Mountain
Division -- "I'm from Kansas, and this was the army..."


A distinguished and witty gentlemen, without a doubt.

They sent him all casts and bandages on a troop train back to Kansas and
when his family went on the train to get him they found that the rest of
the soldiers had been using him as an ashtray.


I guess I misplaced my sense of humor. I may not be a Republican, but we were
in the same convoy going to Italy in December 1944, and he deserves better than
to have jokes made about the wounds he sustained for his nation.

George Z.

Joe



Sorry, it wasn't meant to be funny. It's the story he told an
interviewer during his presidential campaign after the interviewer asked
him if his WWII record would be meaningful to the current generation. I
guess his point was that it wasn't meaningful to some of his own
generation. He never asked for any special treatment because he was a
wounded veteran, he just went back to his life as best he could.

Joe

"Steven James Forsberg" wrote in message
...

: Bob Kerrey would certainly qualify, but he didn't make it
: too far in his presidential bid. Bob Dole was in serious
: combat, but I don't know if his shooting experience was
: aimed or "to whom it may concern".

Well, according to SLA Marshall there is a real question as to
how much shooting in WWII was actually "aimed" at all. ;-)

Double check that source. A few years ago the validity, if not the
integrity, of Marshall's "research" was called into serious question. His
work had been accepted as gospel for decades, but his methodology and
conclusions have since been the subject of reinvestigation. Some have even
gone so far as to claim he pulled his supporting "statistics" out of thin
air. See:

http://carlisle-www.army.mil/usawc/P...n/chambers.pdf

http://www.ku.edu/carrie/archives/mi.../msg00065.html


More seriously, Dole was a 2lt on the front lines with the
10th Mountain Division (presumably infantry branch) when he was wounded
trying to pull his wounded radioman to safety. IIRC from a speech he
gave, he almost died three times (on the battlefield, and two different
times after surgeries stateside). Got a Bronze Star and 2 Purple Hearts
for his efforts.
ISTR he once quipped about how he got assigned to the 10th Mountain
Division -- "I'm from Kansas, and this was the army..."

IIRC Dole spent a year or more under military hospital care while recovering
from his wounds.

Brooks


regards,
-----------------------------------------------------

Steven James Forsberg wrote in message ...
: Bob Kerrey would certainly qualify, but he didn't make it
: too far in his presidential bid. Bob Dole was in serious
: combat, but I don't know if his shooting experience was
: aimed or "to whom it may concern".

Well, according to SLA Marshall there is a real question as to
how much shooting in WWII was actually "aimed" at all. ;-)
More seriously, Dole was a 2lt on the front lines with the
10th Mountain Division (presumably infantry branch) when he was wounded
trying to pull his wounded radioman to safety. IIRC from a speech he
gave, he almost died three times (on the battlefield, and two different
times after surgeries stateside). Got a Bronze Star and 2 Purple Hearts
for his efforts.
ISTR he once quipped about how he got assigned to the 10th Mountain
Division -- "I'm from Kansas, and this was the army..."


My service from Google comes and goes, that is I will have 6 postings
one minute and 3 the next on the same topic. Anyway, here is the
anti-Marshall work:

http://www.warchronicle.com/us/comba...rshallfire.htm

I had heard similar tales as Marshall's repeated about the Civil War,
ie load after load in a muzzle-loader and no discharge. Not hard to
imagine but obviously not documented.

Steven James Forsberg wrote in message ...
: Bob Kerrey would certainly qualify, but he didn't make it
: too far in his presidential bid. Bob Dole was in serious
: combat, but I don't know if his shooting experience was
: aimed or "to whom it may concern".

Well, according to SLA Marshall there is a real question as to
how much shooting in WWII was actually "aimed" at all. ;-)
More seriously, Dole was a 2lt on the front lines with the
10th Mountain Division (presumably infantry branch) when he was wounded
trying to pull his wounded radioman to safety. IIRC from a speech he
gave, he almost died three times (on the battlefield, and two different
times after surgeries stateside). Got a Bronze Star and 2 Purple Hearts
for his efforts.
ISTR he once quipped about how he got assigned to the 10th Mountain
Division -- "I'm from Kansas, and this was the army..."


add: http://www-cgsc.army.mil/milrev/engl...b00/jordan.asp

The Army way of saying Marshall was incorrect, 'new data' and
Marshall's formula was lost with his death.