Stalls??

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote in
:

Blueskies wrote:
Every flight in a light GA single should end in a full stall...right
as the wheels roll on to the runway...Unless folks know how to handle
the plane in a stall, they will not learn to land correctly (I know
this will start the flames!)

I had just started with a Part 135 cargo outfit and was doing the
initial training in a C-402. The check airman asked me for a stall.
I gave him a stall. I thought he and the other new hire were going to
****.

"Didn't you understand I wanted a stall? Give me another."

So I did. Just like before, the plane got pretty mushy and then it
broke cleanly. Once again, I thought they were going to ****. They
were visibly uncomfortable and I had no clue why.

Finally the check airman said, "When I ask for a stall, I expect you
to recover before it actually breaks."

"Well, why didn't you just say you wanted an 'approach to a stall'", I
asked. "What's the problem with doing a full stall in the 402?"

"We hever do full stalls in a twin", he said. The other guy agreed.

I can't see any reason why you couldn't either. Did they pass you BTW?



Bertie


In my multi-engine check ride (in a Baron B55), when I did the requested
stall, the left wing dropped quite suddenly, and for a nano-second I
thought that we would end-up in a spin. It's been a while, but I seem
to remember that we were not that high either. In fact, the evaluator
complimented me on the recovery, adding that if I had not recovered it
right at the start, we would not have had time to do so. That was quite
a scary moment. Even scarier, in all the practices I had done, I had
never experienced such behavior.

On Feb 14, 5:57 am, "Blueskies" wrote:

Every flight in a light GA single should end in a full stall...right as the wheels roll on to the runway...


Interesting... is the nosewheel strut generally designed to bear the
impact of a full-stalled landing?

Ramapriya

D Ramapriya wrote in
:

On Feb 14, 5:57 am, "Blueskies" wrote:

Every flight in a light GA single should end in a full stall...right
as the wheels roll on to the runway...


Interesting... is the nosewheel strut generally designed to bear the
impact of a full-stalled landing?


Good grief. If it isn't we could always use your head in it's place.

Bertie

On Feb 15, 6:57*am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
D Ramapriya wrote :

On Feb 14, 5:57 am, "Blueskies" wrote:

Every flight in a light GA single should end in a full stall...right
as the wheels roll on to the runway...

Interesting... is the nosewheel strut generally designed to bear the
impact of a full-stalled landing?

Good grief. If it isn't we could always use your head in it's place.

Bertie

Bertie
Fun to read your reposts and I'm delighted to see my OP generated so
much discussion in an area that obviously has me concerned. The spins
discussion has been beat over and over but still is as germane as
ever. Again, I am distressed to see so many of todays CFI's who are
not qualified to be teaching flying. They have the certificate and
that doesn't mean schitt. Not when they are afraid to do spins since
they have never done one???
It does not surprise me when students tell me they learn more from me
in one hour than they have learned in 10 with other instructors. I'm
really bothered by that since I don't think I am teaching anything
unusual......OOOHHHH WAIT..
I understand !!! I AM TEACHING VALID FLYING SKILLS AND LETTING THE
STUDENT DO ALL THE WORK.
I also hear that....the instructor stays on the controls all the time
to the point the student begs to get some stick time without overiding
control pressure or input.
Then I see the overconfident CFI who lets a student get sideways in a
stiff XW (15-20kts) and damned near wreck an airplane to prove a
point. Had to replace two tires that were down nearly to blowout with
4 ply showing......
Am I overly sensitive??
Cheers
Another old gray haired fart

On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 02:44:25 -0800 (PST), D Ramapriya
wrote:

On Feb 14, 5:57 am, "Blueskies" wrote:

Every flight in a light GA single should end in a full stall...right as the wheels roll on to the runway...


Interesting... is the nosewheel strut generally designed to bear the
impact of a full-stalled landing?

Why would it need to? The nose shouldn't drop unless the pilot screws
up.



Ramapriya
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

We fear what we don't understand. Some pilots don't understand
the basic aerodynamics...

I highly recommend that pilots that have a fear of stalls
go spend an hour or two with a an instructor and refresh
your knowledge and skills. You will bolter your confidence
and increase your skills and confidence.

On Feb 13, 4:27*pm, kontiki wrote:
We fear what we don't understand. Some pilots don't understand
the basic aerodynamics...

I highly recommend that pilots that have a fear of stalls
go spend an hour or two with a an instructor and refresh
your knowledge and skills. You will bolter your confidence
and increase your skills and confidence.

Kontiki
Find an instructor who is comfortable with stalls and spins....there
is the trick! And its a major flaw in the modern training process. How
sad is that?
Best Regards
Rocky

Ol Shy & Bashful wrote:

Kontiki
Find an instructor who is comfortable with stalls and spins....there
is the trick! And its a major flaw in the modern training process. How
sad is that?
Best Regards
Rocky

Good point.

I think a lot of it is external. As soon as the folks at the
office/neighbors/bowling buddies/other busybodies learn that someone is a
flight student they chime in with "Just wait until you get to stalls!!!"
although in most cases they have no direct experience with flight training
at all. This pre-loads the student with apprehension.

All students become familiar with the angle of attack vs coefficient of lift
curve that appears in almost every text (figure 4-2 in the Airplane Flying
Handbook). You don't have to be a math major to see that maximum lift is
developed just prior to the stall....is max lift a bad thing???

My own approach was to take it slow and easy, beginning with simply holding
the nose on the horizon with the power at idle until a buffet was felt or
the nose began to drop; in either case, I had the student simply lower the
nose until s/he sank into the seat as the wing bit into the air. Adding
power, stalling while banked, etc all came after the student was educated to
the fact that simply relaxing the back pressure was the key to success.

I have dropped long-time friends like the proverbial hot potato when they
refused to explore the low end of the envelope for fear of stalling....and
these were licensed pilots, not students. You can't teach someone whose mind
is made up.

Bob Gardner


"Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote in message
...
Why is it so many pilots are afraid of stalls? I see it over an over
when doing flight reviews and checks. Why are pilots so afraid of
flying in the low end of the speed envelope? Isn't that where the
nasty things can happen? Isn't that where a pilot should be
comfortable and competent?
What do you think?
Its a loaded? question and comes from a 24,000+ hour pilot and active
instructor. I'd really like to see some active discussion on this
subject. I'm tired of seeing aircraft damaged by sloppy flying, and
even more tired of seeing people injured by same.
Got any comments?
Ol S&B

Bob Gardner wrote:

I have dropped long-time friends like the proverbial hot potato when
they refused to explore the low end of the envelope for fear of
stalling....and these were licensed pilots, not students. You can't
teach someone whose mind is made up.


Is this really the case? I'm 45 and got my PPL in '79. Most of the other
pilots I fly with today are either a little older than I am or in most
cases WAY older than I am. I just don't have a lot of experience flying
with pilots that were trained after I was. An even though I was
trained in '79 the training I received would have been right at home in
the early to mid 60's.

My one recent experience was with a young CFI when I was getting a BFR
and this kid was scared of stalls. Hell, he damn near made me scared of
them.