F-102... German Origin

From: (robert arndt)
Date: 2/14/2004 5:54 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:


Name ONE thing Lippisch invented. The flying wing? Lilienthal developed
them as
gliders in the 1800s. Oh gee, he's German too so that doesn't count.
Actually
almost every one of the early glider designers, including the Wrights, made
at
least one flying wing. Ailerons? Try Glenn Curtiss.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Dan,

Here's a whole bunch of things Lippisch pioneered:

http://www.lippischdesign.com/pages/collage.html

Only some ex-USAF clod would try to defame Dr. Alexander Lippisch.

Rob

No need for name calling. I didn't "defame" him. I simply pointed out he never
invented anything. He simply improved on other people's designs or used
existing technology in a new direction.

On the other hand, YOU were the one telling us how much modern aircraft owe to
him. You assume that, because he wad German, he must have been the source of
all things extraordinary in the field of aeronautics.

Almost every thing you post in this newsgroup is about how great the Germans,
especially the Nazis, were/are.

If you adore the Germans so much why do you not move there?

Now stop with the name calling. It only proves you are in marron's, petukhov's,
tarver's and grantland's class.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

(B2431) wrote:

[snip]

Now stop with the name calling. It only proves you are in marron's, petukhov's,
tarver's and grantland's class.

Two can play your childish game of categorizing and pigeon-holing
people, danny. Fact is, I put you in the same "category" as Tarver and
Grantland (I don't even bother to read Petukhov's stuff) as I have
effortlessly and soundly defeated all three of you psychotic trolls.
Debating you is like having a slap fighting contest against a man with
no arms and like I said, whether on the ground or in the sky, I soar
miles above you, sergeant.

"Mike Marron" wrote in message
...
(B2431) wrote:

Debating you is like having a slap fighting contest against a man with
no arms

Pot kettle, kite boy.

At least Dan has been up close to an operational fighter.

Isn't there an untralight newsgroup where your posts might be topical,
Marron?

"Tarver Engineering" wrote:
"Mike Marron" wrote:

Debating you is like having a slap fighting contest against a man with
no arms

Pot kettle, kite boy.

We actually consider "kite" to be an endearing term for our fabulous
little airplanes. Try again.

At least Dan has been up close to an operational fighter.

Dan who?

Isn't there an untralight newsgroup where your posts might be topical,
Marron?

Isn't there an newsgroup for folks like you whom have had a lobotomy,
splappy?

"Mike Marron" wrote in message
...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote:
"Mike Marron" wrote:

Debating you is like having a slap fighting contest against a man with
no arms

Pot kettle, kite boy.

We actually consider "kite" to be an endearing term for our fabulous
little airplanes. Try again.

The irony is wonderful.

In article ,
(robert arndt) wrote:

Here's a whole bunch of things Lippisch pioneered:

http://www.lippischdesign.com/pages/collage.html

Well, from that page, he really didn't "pioneer" much.

He built some very nice gliders, he pushed the tailless delta wing
concept, and he designed a lot of other stuff that didn't really work
out very well, like a coal-burning ramjet and an outboard-powered
ground-effect boat.

His two big successes were the Me-163 and his gliders. Other than that,
not so much.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

Chad Irby wrote:
(robert arndt) wrote:

Here's a whole bunch of things Lippisch pioneered:

http://www.lippischdesign.com/pages/collage.html

Well, from that page, he really didn't "pioneer" much.

He built some very nice gliders, he pushed the tailless delta wing
concept, and he designed a lot of other stuff that didn't really work
out very well, like a coal-burning ramjet and an outboard-powered
ground-effect boat.

His two big successes were the Me-163 and his gliders. Other than that,
not so much.

Us trike flyers worldwide will always credit an American named
Francis Rogallo for pioneering the tailless, delta wing concept while
working at NASA's Langley Research Center.

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message ...
"robert arndt" wrote in message
om...
"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...
"robert arndt" wrote in message
om...
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/annex/an51.htm

... more "borrowed" German-tech courtesy of Dr. Alexander Lippisch.
From the Lippisch DM-1/P.13 we got the XF-92, F-102, F-106, and B-58.

Rob

On that basis the V-2 was built using borrowed US technology.

'Goddard was ahead of us all '
Werner Von Braun

Keith

Right... Germany got it's rocketry from Oberth, not Goddard:
http://www.oberth-museum.org/museum_e.htm

BTW, the Allies had no equivalent to the V-2 and most every other
German missile design.

Absolutely correct.

We never were stupid enough to deploy a missile that killed
more of our own workers building it than the numbers of our
enemy that it managed kill when fired.

At no time did we warp our entire defnce industries producing a
weapon with no real military value that sucked up scarce
resources desperately needed for defense of the homeland.

It never occurred to us that a weapon which cost more per round
than the value of the damage it caused.

No we just developed the weapons that won the
war, not very imaginative perhaps but hey as a
strategy its effectiveness is demonstrated by the fact
that this conversation is in English.

Keith

No A-bomb was dropped on Germany and the Reds did all the real
fighting on the ground... so you didn't win with any specific weapons
just NUMBERS OF MEN AND MATERIAL- a deluge NO army in history could
win against. Of course the Germans DID fight non-stop for 6 years and
introduced incredible weapons that influenced the way we fight war for
6 decades now. And they did it under TOTAL BOMBARDMENT. The US was
NEVER BOMBED and Britain only marginally compared to Germany. How many
weapons would the US have produced under total bombardment? How come
we had every advantage and only claim the A-bomb, radar, and the P-51D
Mustang? The US should have produced everyhting the Germans did... but
did not.
And if you think the Allies are so great why then did they send all
their experts into Germany hunting for secret weapons and every scrap
of technology they could find? Wright Field held thousands of TONs of
captured documents- the largest brain-drain and theft of entire nation
in history.
And you dare to say no one benefitted from it? Bull****.
You're a joke Keith. My next door neighbor was in the OSS. He died in
1981 but before he did I asked him what exactly they found in Germany.
He told me something I'll never forget, "among the jets and rockets we
found things that we could not comprehend at the time". He actually
was there and saw the stuff. You didn't, so **** off.

Rob

"robert arndt" wrote in message
om...


No A-bomb was dropped on Germany

Didnt say it was

and the Reds did all the real
fighting on the ground... so you didn't win with any specific weapons
just NUMBERS OF MEN AND MATERIAL

Having destroyed Germany's synthetic oil plants by strategic bombing
and devastated its transport infrasructure.

- a deluge NO army in history could
win against. Of course the Germans DID fight non-stop for 6 years and

They werent bright enough to realise invading Russia AND declaring war
on the USA wasnt smart

introduced incredible weapons that influenced the way we fight war for
6 decades now. And they did it under TOTAL BOMBARDMENT. The US was
NEVER BOMBED and Britain only marginally compared to Germany.

Because Britain managed to use its scientific resources to build

1) An effective air defense system
2) An effective long range bomber force

How many
weapons would the US have produced under total bombardment? How come
we had every advantage and only claim the A-bomb, radar, and the P-51D
Mustang? The US should have produced everyhting the Germans did... but
did not.

No, it produced useful weapons instead of supersonic phallic
symbols with no military value.

To wit

Efficient air dropped homing torpedoes and long range maritime
patrol aircraft that decimated the u-boats

The proximity fuse that was responsible for improving the
efficiency of AA by almost an order of magnitude

Centimetric radar that allowed the allied nightfighters to destroy
German hightfighters over their own bases, find the U-boats
at night and allowed British airctaft from malta to find and
sink Rommel's transports at night

Efficient logistical systems using practical developments such
as standard containers to keep the armies supplied

Programmble computers that allowed the codebreakers to read
German cipher traffic so fast that by 1944 Eisenhower would
be reading Hitlers orders to Rommel at the same time Rommel
did,

etc etc

And if you think the Allies are so great why then did they send all
their experts into Germany hunting for secret weapons and every scrap
of technology they could find? Wright Field held thousands of TONs of
captured documents- the largest brain-drain and theft of entire nation
in history.

Because looting is what winners do,

And you dare to say no one benefitted from it? Bull****.

I didnt say anything of the sort, I merely pointed out that
it didnt benefit GERMANY

You're a joke Keith. My next door neighbor was in the OSS. He died in
1981 but before he did I asked him what exactly they found in Germany.
He told me something I'll never forget, "among the jets and rockets we
found things that we could not comprehend at the time". He actually
was there and saw the stuff. You didn't, so **** off.


My father was there Herr Arndt, he saw more than rockets
and jets, he saw Bergen Belsen. I grew up in a British city
in the 50's where the ruins of bombed out buildings were a
normal part of life.

My best friend at school was the son of a German jew who
came to Britain in 1936 and helped ICI build its synthetic
fuel plant, NONE of the rest of his family survived the camps.

The Nazi state was brutal corrupt and above all inefficient.
In every measure of arms production they lagged behind in
productivity. Despite their control of all the resources of Western
Europe, Britain alone outproduced Germany in fighter and
bomber aircraft and artillery and tanks. In 1943 and 1944 with
a vast Soviet army headed their way and an Anglo American
army chewing them up in Italy they decided to build not
masses of anti-tank weapons but a rocket with no military
value.

This criminal waste of irreplaceable resources and manpower
is what you are so proud of and yet it in fact only served helped
hasten the defeat of the Reich.

Keith

"Mike Marron" wrote in message
...

Us trike flyers worldwide will always credit an American named
Francis Rogallo for pioneering the tailless, delta wing concept while
working at NASA's Langley Research Center.

Don't foget to thank the man from Glad.