German historian provokes row over war photos

German historian provokes row over war photos

Luke Harding in Berlin
Tuesday October 21, 2003
The Guardian

A controversial German historian is at the centre of a row over his latest
book which includes gruesome photos of German civilians killed by allied
bombing during the second world war.
Jörg Friedrich defended the decision yesterday to publish the photographs
showing the incinerated bodies of German women and children, most of them
killed by British bombs.

His book, Fire Sites, published at last week's Frankfurt Book Fair, argues
that the RAF's relentless bombing campaign against German cities in the
last months of the war served no military purpose.

He claims that Winston Churchill's decision to bomb a shattered Germany
between January and May 1945 was a war crime.

"The bombing left an entire generation traumatised.

But it was never discussed," he told the Guardian. snip

http://www.guardian.co.uk/germany/ar...067259,00.html

Another one.

ronh
--
"People do not make decisions on facts, rather,
how they feel about the facts" Robert Consedine

His book, Fire Sites, published at last week's Frankfurt Book Fair, argues
that the RAF's relentless bombing campaign against German cities in the
last months of the war served no military purpose.

This is a tired old argument. Of course the Allied bombing campaign
(it wasn't just British) served a miitary purpose. Every flak gun
aimed at the Lancasters and Fortresses was a flak gun that *wasn't*
aimed at the advancing American and Russian tanks. Every flak crew was
five men who weren't otherwise engaged in shooting at the troops on
the ground.


He claims that Winston Churchill's decision to bomb a shattered Germany
between January and May 1945 was a war crime.

We have so fixed history that soon anyone who defends himself will be
tried as awar criminal. Vide the European view of Israel.

(And it wasn't Churchill's decision any more than it was Roosevelt's.)

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...

His book, Fire Sites, published at last week's Frankfurt Book Fair,
argues
that the RAF's relentless bombing campaign against German cities in the
last months of the war served no military purpose.

This is a tired old argument. Of course the Allied bombing campaign
(it wasn't just British) served a miitary purpose. Every flak gun
aimed at the Lancasters and Fortresses was a flak gun that *wasn't*
aimed at the advancing American and Russian tanks. Every flak crew was
five men who weren't otherwise engaged in shooting at the troops on
the ground.

Retribution is an ugly thing.

Cub Driver wrote in message . ..
His book, Fire Sites, published at last week's Frankfurt Book Fair, argues
that the RAF's relentless bombing campaign against German cities in the
last months of the war served no military purpose.

This is a tired old argument. Of course the Allied bombing campaign
(it wasn't just British) served a miitary purpose. Every flak gun
aimed at the Lancasters and Fortresses was a flak gun that *wasn't*
aimed at the advancing American and Russian tanks. Every flak crew was
five men who weren't otherwise engaged in shooting at the troops on
the ground.

Wow! Amazing reasoning.

OK. In 2005 Al-Qaida (or your favorite axis of evil flavor of the
month) nukes Chicago with a smuggled tactical nuke. I suppose you will
consider it perfectly justified and above reproach because it serves a
military purpose - take resources away from fighting in the ME and
divert them to internal security within the US mainland.

Fact remains that Churchill WAS a war criminal. Only he won, so he
officially wasnt. That's life - but it aint truth.

On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:20:48 +1300,
(BackToNormal) wrote:

German historian provokes row over war photos
http://www.guardian.co.uk/germany/ar...067259,00.html

Another one.

According to the Grauniad interview on that link:

"Friedrich is unrepentant. "Churchill was the greatest
child-slaughterer of all time. He slaughtered 76,000 children," he
said."

- sits a few paragrpahs above:

"Friedrich admits he is a revisionist, but says he is not interested
in making moral judgements, merely in what happened."

So, hypocrisy, rampant hyperbole and avowed revisionism. I wonder
what could explain that?

"During the sixties, Friedrich moved to Berlin, took part in the '68
movement, and became a Trotskyite radical."

Well, that explains it. Another Trot shock-jock with the latest in
the customary series of "new and contraversial revelations" that are
nothing of the sort. Overturning the conventional wisdom to recruit
cadre from the resulting disillusioned mass is too hackneyed for words
at this point.

Gavin Bailey


--

"Will Boogie Down For Food".- Sign held by Disco Stu outside the unemployment office.

"The Revolution Will Not Be Televised" wrote in
message ...
On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:20:48 +1300,
(BackToNormal) wrote:

German historian provokes row over war photos
http://www.guardian.co.uk/germany/ar...067259,00.html

Another one.

According to the Grauniad interview on that link:

"Friedrich is unrepentant. "Churchill was the greatest
child-slaughterer of all time. He slaughtered 76,000 children," he
said."


A philanthropist in comparison with the enlightened leaders
of the USSR, Japan and Germany who killed millions.

Keith

"Friedrich is unrepentant. "Churchill was the greatest
child-slaughterer of all time. He slaughtered 76,000 children," he
said."


A philanthropist in comparison with the enlightened leaders
of the USSR, Japan and Germany who killed millions.

Keith

Well if that are your standards of comparision then Saddam Hussain was a boy scout.

Subject: German historian provokes row over war photos
From: (Tuollaf43)
Date: 10/22/03 2:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

"Friedrich is unrepentant. "Churchill was the greatest
child-slaughterer of all time. He slaughtered 76,000 children," he
said."


A philanthropist in comparison with the enlightened leaders
of the USSR, Japan and Germany who killed millions.

Keith

Well if that are your standards of comparision then Saddam Hussain was a boy
scout.


There was only one war criminal in WW II HITLER If there was no Hitler there
would hve been no WW II and the 55 million who died would all have lived.
Blaming Churchill is like a murderer blaming the victim. It fools no one. The
criminal acts of theNazis can't be explained away nor can others be blamed for
their crimes. But if ever they rise again we will be back. And this time no
more Mr. Nice Guy as Churchill was.
..
Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...

If there was no Hitler there would hve been no WW II and the 55 million
who
died would all have lived.


That can't be known. Even if Corporal Hitler had been killed in the Great
War events could still have transpired leading to another war and the need
for Roman numerals to differentiate them.

(The Revolution Will Not Be Televised) wrote:

There was no other party in the Weimar Republic, even the Communists,
who were as openly and avoidly dedicated to Hitlerian principles of
racial supremacy, internal repression and external aggression. The
Nazi party existed only as a vehicle for Hitler to achieve and
maintain power. It was totally and completely subordinated to the
whim of the leader. No other right-wing nationalist party had
anything like the adherence to outright dictatorship with irrational,
visionary goals.

Take a look at the competitors: von Papen and Schleisser? Both of
them were unpleasantly reactionary right-wingers, but even the latter,
basically a junta general, did not have the ambitions Hitler had. I
think it's quite tenable to assume that Weimar democracy might not
have survived the depression, but the personal influence of Hitler on
the road to war and the decision to wage war was absolutely critical.

I think a god argument can be made that the philosophy behind the neo-pagan
revivial that began in the 1890's would have lead inevitably to more war.
Already in WWI (The Great War for Civilization) the swastica was the most
common good luck tallisman among German troops. The pieces were all falling
into place. If not Hittler, then another. If it had come a few years later,
with the pace of German science, the results could have been somewhat
different.

-- Charlie Springer