Ventus 2cx brake

I upgraded the cable on my 38 year old Std Cirrus.
My replacement is the rear brake cable from a Honda motorcycle. Had to
cut the fitting off one end and fit a ferrule after threading through
the whole system. Reward is a noticeable improvement. i.e. there is some
retardation from the ridiculous Tost Lilliput wheel. Generally good for
two good stops between adjustments...

Greg Arnold wrote:
DRN wrote:
On Nov 26, 12:27 pm, Greg Arnold wrote:
DRN wrote:
On Nov 26, 11:32 am, Andy wrote:
http://www.nadler.com/public/ventus2...ke%20cable.htm
Man that's ugly!
Why would anyone ruin a great hydraulic disc brake by actuating the
master cylinder with a bicycle cable?
Andy
That is a very good question.
Antares uses a direct mechanical connection from spoiler
pushrod to master-cylinder actuation lever, no Bowden cable.
A Bowden cable is a SPRING, and bicycle-grade is really
silly in these applications (especially 8 foot long with a
Tost "wheel brake").
I believe SH has upgraded new production to use Beringer parts;
hopefully they have stopped doing this on the actuation side...
See ya, Dave "YO electric"
No, still using the bicycle cable with the Beringer system. See the
installation instructions he

http://schempp-hirth.com/fileadmin/t...49-33-2444.pdf

Aaarggg - It does work adequately with a beefier Bowden cable...


I upgraded to a disc brake on my 20-year-old Discus. I have the very
same issues there, and haven't had any good ideas about how to upgrade
to a beefier Bowden cable (motorcycle cable?) that still will work with
the fittings designed for the bicycle cable. Also, I have wondered how
a stiffer cable would affect the feel at the stick -- seems it would be
stiffer in pitch.

On Nov 26, 1:28*pm, Bruce wrote:
I upgraded the cable on my 38 year old Std Cirrus.
My replacement is the rear brake cable from a Honda motorcycle. Had to
cut the fitting off one end and fit a ferrule after threading through
the whole system. Reward is a noticeable improvement. i.e. there is some
retardation from the ridiculous Tost Lilliput wheel. Generally good for
two good stops between adjustments...



Greg Arnold wrote:
DRN wrote:
On Nov 26, 12:27 pm, Greg Arnold wrote:
DRN wrote:
On Nov 26, 11:32 am, Andy wrote:
http://www.nadler.com/public/ventus2...ke%20cable.htm
Man that's ugly!
Why would anyone ruin a great hydraulic disc brake by actuating the
master cylinder with a bicycle cable?
Andy
That is a very good question.
Antares uses a direct mechanical connection from spoiler
pushrod to master-cylinder actuation lever, no Bowden cable.
A Bowden cable is a SPRING, and bicycle-grade is really
silly in these applications (especially 8 foot long with a
Tost "wheel brake").
I believe SH has upgraded new production to use Beringer parts;
hopefully they have stopped doing this on the actuation side...
See ya, Dave "YO electric"
No, still using the bicycle cable with the Beringer system. *See the
installation instructions he

http://schempp-hirth.com/fileadmin/t...49-33-2444.pdf

Aaarggg - It does work adequately with a beefier Bowden cable...

I upgraded to a disc brake on my 20-year-old Discus. *I have the very
same issues there, and haven't had any good ideas about how to upgrade
to a beefier Bowden cable (motorcycle cable?) that still will work with
the fittings designed for the bicycle cable. *Also, I have wondered how
a stiffer cable would affect the feel at the stick -- seems it would be
stiffer in pitch.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Heheh all this talk about overly complex brakes makes me happy to have
the flintstone brakes on my Ka-6. Simple piece of sheetmetal that gets
pulled over the wheel, and It works. I haven't landed out in it yet,
but the combo of full top and bottom surface brakes, plus the wheel
brake make it stop in a pretty small area.

Pete

vontresc wrote:


Heheh all this talk about overly complex brakes makes me happy to have
the flintstone brakes on my Ka-6. Simple piece of sheetmetal that gets
pulled over the wheel, and It works. I haven't landed out in it yet,
but the combo of full top and bottom surface brakes, plus the wheel
brake make it stop in a pretty small area.

Be *really* careful landing on a wet or damp runway. Water is a
wonderful lubricant between tire tread and sheet metal. Your "pretty
small area" will slide by in a flash! Been there, did that, fortunately
stopped short of the fence near the end of the runway. When it was dry,
it did an excellent job.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

* Updated! "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* New Jan '08 - sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more

* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

On Nov 26, 11:05*am, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
When I was building a brake system for the center stick controls of my
HP-18, I decided I wanted the stick to have as little inertia, and as
little mass aft of the ptich pivot, as practical. Hence my decision to
use a mountain bike brake lever on the stick driving a fixed master
cylinder through a low-friction sheathed cable. That's why this
sailplane developer developed such a system.

Did you consider using a mountain bike hydraulic brake lever? Perhaps
they were not available then. Is the mass of the lever even
significant compared to the mass of the pilot's hand and arm that are
also usually, and certainly during a PIO, attached to the stick?

Andy

On Nov 26, 3:00*pm, Andy wrote:

Did you consider using a mountain bike hydraulic brake lever? *Perhaps
they were not available then.

Yes, I tested a promising one at the time. As little displacement as
my Cleveland caliper requires under typical conditions, it still took
a couple pumps of the lever before it pressured up.

Is the mass of the lever even significant compared to the mass of the
pilot's hand and arm that are also usually, and certainly during a
PIO, *attached to the stick?

Not known. I do know that the available hydraulic master cylinders
with attached reservoir are around a pound or so. I also know that the
human hand and arm has a lot of inherent damping, and also that only
about half the mass of the forearm counts as sprung weight. In this
case at least I decided to develop conservatively and move on.

Thanks, Bob K.

On Nov 25, 8:33*pm, BravoCharlie
wrote:
Hi Pilots,

I have a V2cxT that has the standard S-H disc brake that no longer
works very well. *I have been through the obvious fixes; pads, new
fluid, bleed, etc. and haven't been able to bring it back up to
original performance which was adequate but not stellar.

I know a number of pilots have complained about this world-wide and S-
H has issued a voluntary TN. *The fix is to basically throw the old
stuff away and replace everything including wheel and tire with the
French-made Beringer system. *Beringer makes performance brake systems
for motorcycles, aircraft, etc. *It is not cheap and probably not an
easy install.

Does any one have first hand knowledge about this fix? *How easy is it
to install and what are the performance gains? *I hate to lay out the
cash without an understanding of how much of an improvement I will
see.

Let me know, thanks.

Bob

I believe I have seen a spoiler actuated brake system on a Nimbus 3,
maybe SH could provide the parts to convert yours. You can get some
real muscle into the system when the wheel brake is actuated by the
spoiler handle.
JJ

JJ Sinclair wrote:

Does any one have first hand knowledge about this fix? How easy is it
to install and what are the performance gains? I hate to lay out the
cash without an understanding of how much of an improvement I will
see.

Let me know, thanks.

Bob

I believe I have seen a spoiler actuated brake system on a Nimbus 3,
maybe SH could provide the parts to convert yours. You can get some
real muscle into the system when the wheel brake is actuated by the
spoiler handle.

Is there an operational reason for putting the brake on the stick
instead of the spoiler? As opposed to, say, cost reasons?

I've always preferred the wheel brake on the spoiler handle, even though
it sometimes confused people when they saw the spoilers open as the
towplane began to take up slack.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

* Updated! "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* New Jan '08 - sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more

* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

Eric Greenwell wrote:


Is there an operational reason for putting the brake on the stick
instead of the spoiler? As opposed to, say, cost reasons?

I've always preferred the wheel brake on the spoiler handle, even though
it sometimes confused people when they saw the spoilers open as the
towplane began to take up slack.



I have had gliders that did it both ways, and it seems to me that it is
easier to modulate the brake in small amounts with your hand than with
your entire arm. But that could just be me.

I notice that the new 304S still has the bicycle brake lever, but has
moved it to the spoiler handle. It would seem that there are advantages
to getting it off the stick, including the possibility of having the
lever directly act on the hydraulic cylinder. I wonder if the 304S does
it that way, or still uses a bicycle cable going to the cylinder.

Greg Arnold wrote:
Eric Greenwell wrote:


Is there an operational reason for putting the brake on the stick
instead of the spoiler? As opposed to, say, cost reasons?

I've always preferred the wheel brake on the spoiler handle, even
though it sometimes confused people when they saw the spoilers open as
the towplane began to take up slack.



I have had gliders that did it both ways, and it seems to me that it is
easier to modulate the brake in small amounts with your hand than with
your entire arm. But that could just be me.

Perhaps it's the glider. I found both my ASW 20 C and my ASH 26 E very
easy to modulate. The wheel brake takes more force than holding full
spoiler at landing or takeoff speed, so it's easy to know when I am
applying it. It's easier for me to modulate the total braking effort
with one arm (brake on spoilers), instead left arm (spoilers) and right
hand (wheel brake).

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

* Updated! "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* New Jan '08 - sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more

* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

On Nov 27, 12:26*pm, Eric Greenwell wrote:

Is there an operational reason for putting the brake on the stick
instead of the spoiler? As opposed to, say, cost reasons?

Possibly. If it is necessary to move flaps to a negative setting
right after touchdown, that means releasing the spoiler handle in
order to move the flap handle. If the brake is on the spoiler handle,
that also means that the wheel brake must be released. If the brake
handle is on the stick, the wheel brake can be held on with the
bicycle brake grip while the flap handle is moved.

I favor both as with the Duo Discus or heel brake as with the LS-3.

I use the wheel brake stick grip by shifting my grip such that
rearward force on the brake handle also pulls the stick back to help
prevent a nose over and keep maximum down force on the tailwheel to
prevent a ground loop. My left hand is then free to shift the flaps
to max negative and return to the air brake.