Ramp checked at AVP today

The argument goes that it makes it easy for them to check the ID of the plane without
having to enter the plane and it's more difficult to falsify than the painted
N-numbers.

Oh! You mean the *data plate*?

But haven't they been on airplanes all along?

That plate on Zero Six Hotel, starboard side, near the tail--that's
discouraging me from running drugs to Wiscassett, Maine?

Well, I'll be swanned.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! blog www.vivabush.org

If you have nothing to hide then why
build up ill will by playing "who has the biggest pecker" with the FAA?

When I was young and stupid, I was a passenger in a car that was
stopped by the Massachusetts state police. The trooper started jawing
and jawing about our lack of courtesy, etc., whereupon the tough-guy
driver said: "Don't gimme any sh*t, just gimme the ticket."

So the trooper did.

It made a great story to tell when we got home, but it was really
really stupid.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! blog www.vivabush.org

What about this?

You hand an inspector your papers during a ramp check....

He stupidly takes or keeps something he has no legal right to....that you cant
replace on the spot...

You are stuck in Middle of Nowhere, Crappy State USA....you and the plane NEED
to get somewhere NOW....

You continue on your flight path to your destination....

Now youve shown up somewhere else WITHOUT a critical piece of paper....

WHO gets in trouble for not having the correct papers at the second ramp check?

I no nutin about piloting....and an inspector would have to be real jerk before
I'd be anything but polite, helpful, and respectable....

but I'm not sure I'd physically let go of any critical piece of paperwork I
needed either...

As they say...."possesion is 9/10ths of the law"

take care

Blll

I think I'd rather have somebody looking at that stuff on the ramp as
opposed to being able to sit down comfortably at a desk to look it over.

mike regish

"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:Pvmdc.364$Va4.47@fed1read01...
Don't get me wrong, It's nice to be friendly and polite with the local FAA
on a "ramp check", but don't get carried away.

He can ask for anything he wants.. That does not mean he gets to see them.
He can "see" not handle, the pilot certificate and a medical if required.
What would you have done if he pocketed the certificate or your medical.

Any thing else he asks to see, "Sorry, I'm have an appointment to go to,
can
we make an appointment at my local FSDO and have the aircraft paperwork
reviewed there?" That's it, done.

Most logs are not carried, but POH with weight and balance are required.
But
they need not be shown during a ramp check. Same for charts, what ever. He
can look in the airplane by looking through the window. He can check the
aircraft for the required anti-drug exterior data plate.

You lucked out.

BT
"Doug Vetter" wrote in message
et...
Hi all,

Just figured I'd relate an experience I had today -- I was ramp checked
at Wilkes Barre, PA, for the second time in 15 years of flying.

After shooting a nice "high speed" ILS to a full stop landing, I pulled
up to Tech Aviation. Not 10 seconds after I hopped out and told the
line crew to top the tanks, an unassuming-looking guy walked up and
flipped out an id that logo I'd seen somewhere before... He kindly
introduced himself, "Hi, I'm name, an inspector from the FAA" and just
said that he wanted to perform a ramp check.

I said "sure" and asked him what he wanted to see. He said "eh, just
the usual stuff, certificate, medical, aircraft documentation". While I
was busy pulling my credentials out of my flight bag he asked where I
was based. As I turned around to hand him my certificates, I caught him
writing the N number and model of the airplane in a notebook.

When he saw my CFI certificate, he just remarked "oh, you're a CFI,
eh?". "Yup" I said. I don't know if it was just me, but after that he
seemed a bit more friendly and casual. Perhaps having a CFI certificate
is a lot like having a PBA card when pulled over for speeding... :-)

He then said, "Do you have the weight and balance information for the
airplane?" I said, "sure", and grabbed the "Airplane Flight Manual"
binder I developed for the airplane, which, among other things, includes
all of the recent flight records, VOT checks, weight and balance
worksheets, a copy of the POH (this airplane doesn't have an approved
flight manual), squawk listing, and even copies of airframe / powerplant
/ prop logbook pages necessary to prove everything is in license.

When the inspector saw the binder he then asked "Is this a school or a
club airplane?" I said "No, why do you ask?" He replied that he often
sees this kind of binder in a club or school airplane, but he "couldn't
remember" when he last saw a private airplane with one. "Very nice", he
concluded.

At that point, he glanced at the weight and balance data for a couple
seconds and said, "okay that's looks good" He then commented on how
nice the airplane looked. "This airplane is in great shape...pretty
obvious you take care of it". I jokingly replied "well, my partner and
I are really particular about the airplane...so much so that we're
putting my mechanic's kids through college!" He laughed, reached out
his hand to shake mine, and said "thanks for your time, and good luck
with it!". And that was about it.

The interesting twist is I had brought the binder home last weekend so I
could make some changes to it, and I walked out of the house this
morning without it. Halfway down the driveway, I realized my error. I
thought to myself "Well, I don't really *need* it, but I better grab
it". Glad I did. If I hadn't, I would not have been able to show the
weight and balance information and the day would not have ended so well.

Morals? Make sure the airplane you fly has all of the necessary
paperwork in good order EVERY time you fly, and make sure you bring your
certificate(s) and medical with you. You NEVER know when or where
you'll be ramp checked!

-Doug

--
--------------------
Doug Vetter, CFIMEIA

http://www.dvcfi.com
--------------------

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...


I've been told (never been ramp-checked myself) that the FAA guy can
interpret this to mean that your chart must be current.

I know this is a prevalent story, but I have never read of any enforcement
action on this.

It is very clear that the FAA's standard does not require any sectional
chart at all for flight in your traffic pattern or the immediate vicinity of
your airport. Is having an old chart onboard worse than no chart? No.

I always do have current charts onboard for wherever I plan to fly, and when
I fly cross-country I often carry with me expired charts for areas quite a
bit off course but where theoretically I might divert in a doomsday
situation. Does having those just-in-case expired charts make me less
safe? No, of course not.

Again, I do not believe there has ever been an enforcement action on this
issue, nor could/should there be one.

Again, you DO clearly need current IFR charts -- but even there, what's
wrong with carrying expired charts for places you don't plan to go unless
some one-in-a-million weather or mechanical event occurs?

--------------------
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

Dave Stadt wrote:



Wasn't Bob Hoovers ticket pulled on the spot by a couple of FAA types that
had no idea how to fly an airplane?

No, not on the spot. That's not even possible to do.

Cub Driver wrote:

The argument goes that it makes it easy for them to check the ID of the plane without
having to enter the plane and it's more difficult to falsify than the painted
N-numbers.


Oh! You mean the *data plate*?

But haven't they been on airplanes all along?

Most, not all planes. Now they all have to be in the same spot. Pilots
side on the fuselage just in fron of the tail.

BllFs6 wrote:

What about this?

You hand an inspector your papers during a ramp check....

He stupidly takes or keeps something he has no legal right to....that you cant
replace on the spot...

You are stuck in Middle of Nowhere, Crappy State USA....you and the plane NEED
to get somewhere NOW....

You continue on your flight path to your destination....

Now youve shown up somewhere else WITHOUT a critical piece of paper....

WHO gets in trouble for not having the correct papers at the second ramp check?

The FSDO guy from the last ramp check.



I no nutin about piloting....and an inspector would have to be real jerk before
I'd be anything but polite, helpful, and respectable....

but I'm not sure I'd physically let go of any critical piece of paperwork I
needed either...

Nothin' to worry about.

Cub Driver wrote:

There is no legal requirement for you to carry VFR charts period -- just a
requirement that you obtain all necessary information before the flight.

I've been told (never been ramp-checked myself) that the FAA guy can
interpret this to mean that your chart must be current.

As of 1997, this is not the case, according to inspector Ryan of the Allentown FSDO.
The triggering incident was a case in which an inspector violated a pilot for having
an out-of-date database in his GPS. The inspector argued that this was exactly the
same as having an out-of-date chart. The FAA agreed with the logic and issued orders
to all the inspectors that out-of-date charts are ok.

George Patterson
This marriage is off to a shaky start. The groom just asked the band to
play "Your cheatin' heart", and the bride just requested "Don't come home
a'drinkin' with lovin' on your mind".

Cub Driver wrote:

The argument goes that it makes it easy for them to check the ID of the plane without
having to enter the plane and it's more difficult to falsify than the painted
N-numbers.

Oh! You mean the *data plate*?

But haven't they been on airplanes all along?

Not in that location. The data plate was located inside the aircraft until the early
'90s. Then the feds passed two regulations; one required that all aircraft have 12"
high N-numbers and the other required an identification plate be added at the tail.
These were quickly ammended to allow aircraft with smaller numbers to retain them
until the next paint job, allow some other aircraft (mainly antiques) to retain the
smaller numbers, and to allow the registration info to be painted on instead of
having a plate if the aircraft did not originally come with an exterior plate.

In my '69 Cessna, the data plate was inside the cabin and the serial number and
aircraft type were painted on the fuselage below the horizontal stabilizer. My Maule
was built after the regs went into effect, and the data plate is riveted to the tail.

George Patterson
This marriage is off to a shaky start. The groom just asked the band to
play "Your cheatin' heart", and the bride just requested "Don't come home
a'drinkin' with lovin' on your mind".