Ramp checked at AVP today

Hi all,

Just figured I'd relate an experience I had today -- I was ramp checked
at Wilkes Barre, PA, for the second time in 15 years of flying.

After shooting a nice "high speed" ILS to a full stop landing, I pulled
up to Tech Aviation. Not 10 seconds after I hopped out and told the
line crew to top the tanks, an unassuming-looking guy walked up and
flipped out an id that logo I'd seen somewhere before... He kindly
introduced himself, "Hi, I'm name, an inspector from the FAA" and just
said that he wanted to perform a ramp check.

I said "sure" and asked him what he wanted to see. He said "eh, just
the usual stuff, certificate, medical, aircraft documentation". While I
was busy pulling my credentials out of my flight bag he asked where I
was based. As I turned around to hand him my certificates, I caught him
writing the N number and model of the airplane in a notebook.

When he saw my CFI certificate, he just remarked "oh, you're a CFI,
eh?". "Yup" I said. I don't know if it was just me, but after that he
seemed a bit more friendly and casual. Perhaps having a CFI certificate
is a lot like having a PBA card when pulled over for speeding... :-)

He then said, "Do you have the weight and balance information for the
airplane?" I said, "sure", and grabbed the "Airplane Flight Manual"
binder I developed for the airplane, which, among other things, includes
all of the recent flight records, VOT checks, weight and balance
worksheets, a copy of the POH (this airplane doesn't have an approved
flight manual), squawk listing, and even copies of airframe / powerplant
/ prop logbook pages necessary to prove everything is in license.

When the inspector saw the binder he then asked "Is this a school or a
club airplane?" I said "No, why do you ask?" He replied that he often
sees this kind of binder in a club or school airplane, but he "couldn't
remember" when he last saw a private airplane with one. "Very nice", he
concluded.

At that point, he glanced at the weight and balance data for a couple
seconds and said, "okay that's looks good" He then commented on how
nice the airplane looked. "This airplane is in great shape...pretty
obvious you take care of it". I jokingly replied "well, my partner and
I are really particular about the airplane...so much so that we're
putting my mechanic's kids through college!" He laughed, reached out
his hand to shake mine, and said "thanks for your time, and good luck
with it!". And that was about it.

The interesting twist is I had brought the binder home last weekend so I
could make some changes to it, and I walked out of the house this
morning without it. Halfway down the driveway, I realized my error. I
thought to myself "Well, I don't really *need* it, but I better grab
it". Glad I did. If I hadn't, I would not have been able to show the
weight and balance information and the day would not have ended so well.

Morals? Make sure the airplane you fly has all of the necessary
paperwork in good order EVERY time you fly, and make sure you bring your
certificate(s) and medical with you. You NEVER know when or where
you'll be ramp checked!

-Doug

--
--------------------
Doug Vetter, CFIMEIA

http://www.dvcfi.com
--------------------

Having copies of the logs is a great idea....carrying the logs is a bad
idea, which you apparently know very well. good report!

Bob Gardner

"Doug Vetter" wrote in message
et...
Hi all,

Just figured I'd relate an experience I had today -- I was ramp checked
at Wilkes Barre, PA, for the second time in 15 years of flying.

After shooting a nice "high speed" ILS to a full stop landing, I pulled
up to Tech Aviation. Not 10 seconds after I hopped out and told the
line crew to top the tanks, an unassuming-looking guy walked up and
flipped out an id that logo I'd seen somewhere before... He kindly
introduced himself, "Hi, I'm name, an inspector from the FAA" and just
said that he wanted to perform a ramp check.

I said "sure" and asked him what he wanted to see. He said "eh, just
the usual stuff, certificate, medical, aircraft documentation". While I
was busy pulling my credentials out of my flight bag he asked where I
was based. As I turned around to hand him my certificates, I caught him
writing the N number and model of the airplane in a notebook.

When he saw my CFI certificate, he just remarked "oh, you're a CFI,
eh?". "Yup" I said. I don't know if it was just me, but after that he
seemed a bit more friendly and casual. Perhaps having a CFI certificate
is a lot like having a PBA card when pulled over for speeding... :-)

He then said, "Do you have the weight and balance information for the
airplane?" I said, "sure", and grabbed the "Airplane Flight Manual"
binder I developed for the airplane, which, among other things, includes
all of the recent flight records, VOT checks, weight and balance
worksheets, a copy of the POH (this airplane doesn't have an approved
flight manual), squawk listing, and even copies of airframe / powerplant
/ prop logbook pages necessary to prove everything is in license.

When the inspector saw the binder he then asked "Is this a school or a
club airplane?" I said "No, why do you ask?" He replied that he often
sees this kind of binder in a club or school airplane, but he "couldn't
remember" when he last saw a private airplane with one. "Very nice", he
concluded.

At that point, he glanced at the weight and balance data for a couple
seconds and said, "okay that's looks good" He then commented on how
nice the airplane looked. "This airplane is in great shape...pretty
obvious you take care of it". I jokingly replied "well, my partner and
I are really particular about the airplane...so much so that we're
putting my mechanic's kids through college!" He laughed, reached out
his hand to shake mine, and said "thanks for your time, and good luck
with it!". And that was about it.

The interesting twist is I had brought the binder home last weekend so I
could make some changes to it, and I walked out of the house this
morning without it. Halfway down the driveway, I realized my error. I
thought to myself "Well, I don't really *need* it, but I better grab
it". Glad I did. If I hadn't, I would not have been able to show the
weight and balance information and the day would not have ended so well.

Morals? Make sure the airplane you fly has all of the necessary
paperwork in good order EVERY time you fly, and make sure you bring your
certificate(s) and medical with you. You NEVER know when or where
you'll be ramp checked!

-Doug

--
--------------------
Doug Vetter, CFIMEIA

http://www.dvcfi.com
--------------------

Bob Gardner wrote:

Having copies of the logs is a great idea....carrying the logs is a bad
idea, which you apparently know very well. good report!

Why would you want a copy of your logs with you? You do not need to
prove that a component is legal RIGHT NOW. Assuming it is legal the
airplane cannot be grounded because the inspector thinks it's not legal.
If he has a question he can make an appointment to look at your logs,
more likely he will have you fax over the relavant info.

Saved him a little hassle by not having to go to the trouble of making more
copies and/or making a visit to the FSDO.

Bob Gardner

"Newps" wrote in message
news:iImdc.103080$JO3.59160@attbi_s04...


Bob Gardner wrote:

Having copies of the logs is a great idea....carrying the logs is a bad
idea, which you apparently know very well. good report!

Why would you want a copy of your logs with you? You do not need to
prove that a component is legal RIGHT NOW. Assuming it is legal the
airplane cannot be grounded because the inspector thinks it's not legal.
If he has a question he can make an appointment to look at your logs,
more likely he will have you fax over the relavant info.

Bob Gardner wrote:
Saved him a little hassle by not having to go to the trouble of making more
copies and/or making a visit to the FSDO.

Bob Gardner

And that's indeed the spirit in which I decided to include that
information. I realize some say that the inspector doesn't have the
right to see everything right then, but more often than not, I've found
that when you deal with a FAA inspector -- either for a flight test such
as the initial CFI or a ramp check -- honesty and openness is the best
policy.

Some of these guys can really make your life a living hell if they want
to, so while I won't volunteer information (note that I asked him what
he wanted to see), I'll generally be prepared to supply anything they
might reasonably ask for in the hope they will not see me as a "target"
and walk away. That's precisely what happened today.

-Doug

--
--------------------
Doug Vetter, CFIMEIA

http://www.dvcfi.com
--------------------

I keep a copy of the current W&B in the folder in the aircraft along
with the AROW documents. I don't keep all the supporting docs -- they
weigh about 5 pounds!

Don't get me wrong, It's nice to be friendly and polite with the local FAA
on a "ramp check", but don't get carried away.

He can ask for anything he wants.. That does not mean he gets to see them.
He can "see" not handle, the pilot certificate and a medical if required.
What would you have done if he pocketed the certificate or your medical.

Any thing else he asks to see, "Sorry, I'm have an appointment to go to, can
we make an appointment at my local FSDO and have the aircraft paperwork
reviewed there?" That's it, done.

Most logs are not carried, but POH with weight and balance are required. But
they need not be shown during a ramp check. Same for charts, what ever. He
can look in the airplane by looking through the window. He can check the
aircraft for the required anti-drug exterior data plate.

You lucked out.

BT
"Doug Vetter" wrote in message
et...
Hi all,

Just figured I'd relate an experience I had today -- I was ramp checked
at Wilkes Barre, PA, for the second time in 15 years of flying.

After shooting a nice "high speed" ILS to a full stop landing, I pulled
up to Tech Aviation. Not 10 seconds after I hopped out and told the
line crew to top the tanks, an unassuming-looking guy walked up and
flipped out an id that logo I'd seen somewhere before... He kindly
introduced himself, "Hi, I'm name, an inspector from the FAA" and just
said that he wanted to perform a ramp check.

I said "sure" and asked him what he wanted to see. He said "eh, just
the usual stuff, certificate, medical, aircraft documentation". While I
was busy pulling my credentials out of my flight bag he asked where I
was based. As I turned around to hand him my certificates, I caught him
writing the N number and model of the airplane in a notebook.

When he saw my CFI certificate, he just remarked "oh, you're a CFI,
eh?". "Yup" I said. I don't know if it was just me, but after that he
seemed a bit more friendly and casual. Perhaps having a CFI certificate
is a lot like having a PBA card when pulled over for speeding... :-)

He then said, "Do you have the weight and balance information for the
airplane?" I said, "sure", and grabbed the "Airplane Flight Manual"
binder I developed for the airplane, which, among other things, includes
all of the recent flight records, VOT checks, weight and balance
worksheets, a copy of the POH (this airplane doesn't have an approved
flight manual), squawk listing, and even copies of airframe / powerplant
/ prop logbook pages necessary to prove everything is in license.

When the inspector saw the binder he then asked "Is this a school or a
club airplane?" I said "No, why do you ask?" He replied that he often
sees this kind of binder in a club or school airplane, but he "couldn't
remember" when he last saw a private airplane with one. "Very nice", he
concluded.

At that point, he glanced at the weight and balance data for a couple
seconds and said, "okay that's looks good" He then commented on how
nice the airplane looked. "This airplane is in great shape...pretty
obvious you take care of it". I jokingly replied "well, my partner and
I are really particular about the airplane...so much so that we're
putting my mechanic's kids through college!" He laughed, reached out
his hand to shake mine, and said "thanks for your time, and good luck
with it!". And that was about it.

The interesting twist is I had brought the binder home last weekend so I
could make some changes to it, and I walked out of the house this
morning without it. Halfway down the driveway, I realized my error. I
thought to myself "Well, I don't really *need* it, but I better grab
it". Glad I did. If I hadn't, I would not have been able to show the
weight and balance information and the day would not have ended so well.

Morals? Make sure the airplane you fly has all of the necessary
paperwork in good order EVERY time you fly, and make sure you bring your
certificate(s) and medical with you. You NEVER know when or where
you'll be ramp checked!

-Doug

--
--------------------
Doug Vetter, CFIMEIA

http://www.dvcfi.com
--------------------

"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:Pvmdc.364$Va4.47@fed1read01...
You lucked out.


No he didn't. He was prepared. No luck involved.

Karl

(S)he can check for it all (s)he wants, but it is a Department of the Treasury
(Customs) requirement, not an FAA requirement. (S)he has no legal obligation OR
standing to enforce another agencie's requirements. Just like looking in and
seeing that the radios are Mark-12s. The FCC outlawed them, not the FAA. They
will take no action...

....unless you REALLY piff them off, and then they will call in the other agency
to do the dirty work.

Jim



He can check the
-aircraft for the required anti-drug exterior data plate.
Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

What is
"He can check the
aircraft for the required anti-drug exterior data plate." ?

Also, since I fly a citabria there really isn't any where to put very
much stuff. I have one of the multi-compartment bags that hangs off
the back of an automobile seat bungeed in the baggage compartment
(couldn't see spending the premium for the "aviation" bag from
Sporty's). I carry the certificates, POH, W&B chart. I also have the
W&B plugged into my GPS. Does that count if I didn't, although I do,
have a paper copy of the W&B?

Does a fresh printout from aeroplanner count as a current chart?

Dave
68 7ECA