Jeppesen Garmin Nav Updates

Jas wrote:
Does anyone every post these in here? Ridiculous price to update your
garmin 396. Just wondering if anyone ever has.

Thx

Jas

If you feel the price is ridiculous then apparently the data has limited
or no value to you.

A lot of effort goes into compiling the data; waypoints, nav aids,
frequencies, airport data, special use airspace boundaries and
altitudes, etc, etc.

And, the companies, Jeppesen and Garmin, aren't in business for the fun
of it.

Sam Spade wrote:

A lot of effort goes into compiling the data; waypoints, nav aids,
frequencies, airport data, special use airspace boundaries and
altitudes, etc, etc.

Most of which is done on the tax payers dime.

Yes, Jeppesen does add value. For example, they compile it into different
formats for vendors as well as a lot of cross checking and data validation.
However, the real hefty lifting is done by government agencies. As the
end consumer essentially ends up paying for the base information twice (once
to Jeppesen and once through their taxes), I'll side with the OP and say
that Jeppesen is indeed overpriced.

And, the companies, Jeppesen and Garmin, aren't in business for the fun
of it.

Yup, and they are welcome to charge as much as they can get for it. And they
can charge a lot for it because they are the only game in town. However,
if there was any other source for this information, you can bet I for one
would be encouraging the competition.

--
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
Boise, ID

Frank Stutzman wrote:
Sam Spade wrote:


A lot of effort goes into compiling the data; waypoints, nav aids,
frequencies, airport data, special use airspace boundaries and
altitudes, etc, etc.


Most of which is done on the tax payers dime.

Yes, Jeppesen does add value. For example, they compile it into different
formats for vendors as well as a lot of cross checking and data validation.
However, the real hefty lifting is done by government agencies. As the
end consumer essentially ends up paying for the base information twice (once
to Jeppesen and once through their taxes), I'll side with the OP and say
that Jeppesen is indeed overpriced.


And, the companies, Jeppesen and Garmin, aren't in business for the fun
of it.


Yup, and they are welcome to charge as much as they can get for it. And they
can charge a lot for it because they are the only game in town. However,
if there was any other source for this information, you can bet I for one
would be encouraging the competition.


The taxpayers pay for instrument approach procedures and
route/development maintenance.

The nav database is of little use to anyone until Jeppesen does a lot of
work on it.

Special use airspace boundaries are painstakenly reconstructed by
Jeppesen from the arcane rule-making source. NACO has to do the same to
make Sectionals and TACs, and those aren't exactly free, either.

The compliation of airport, nav-aid and comm frequencies from many
sources isn't easy, either.

The taxpayer is being had by the fact NACO gives away its approach
charts. Those are distinct and separate from the development of the
IAP. No other country in the world gives away their approach charts.

On 2009-10-12 10:52:08 -0800, Sam Spade said:

Frank Stutzman wrote:
Sam Spade wrote:


A lot of effort goes into compiling the data; waypoints, nav aids,
frequencies, airport data, special use airspace boundaries and
altitudes, etc, etc.


Most of which is done on the tax payers dime.
Yes, Jeppesen does add value. For example, they compile it into
different formats for vendors as well as a lot of cross checking and
data validation.
However, the real hefty lifting is done by government agencies. As the
end consumer essentially ends up paying for the base information twice
(once
to Jeppesen and once through their taxes), I'll side with the OP and say
that Jeppesen is indeed overpriced.


And, the companies, Jeppesen and Garmin, aren't in business for the fun of it.


Yup, and they are welcome to charge as much as they can get for it. And they
can charge a lot for it because they are the only game in town. However,
if there was any other source for this information, you can bet I for one
would be encouraging the competition.

The taxpayers pay for instrument approach procedures and
route/development maintenance.

The nav database is of little use to anyone until Jeppesen does a lot
of work on it.

Special use airspace boundaries are painstakenly reconstructed by
Jeppesen from the arcane rule-making source. NACO has to do the same
to make Sectionals and TACs, and those aren't exactly free, either.

The compliation of airport, nav-aid and comm frequencies from many
sources isn't easy, either.

The taxpayer is being had by the fact NACO gives away its approach
charts. Those are distinct and separate from the development of the
IAP. No other country in the world gives away their approach charts.

I didn't know I would hit a nerve with you on this Sam. For aspiring
pilots with little or no money when taking lessons, its a pretty hefty
price tag to stay updated.

Jas wrote:
On 2009-10-12 10:52:08 -0800, Sam Spade said:

Frank Stutzman wrote:

Sam Spade wrote:


A lot of effort goes into compiling the data; waypoints, nav aids,
frequencies, airport data, special use airspace boundaries and
altitudes, etc, etc.



Most of which is done on the tax payers dime.
Yes, Jeppesen does add value. For example, they compile it into
different formats for vendors as well as a lot of cross checking and
data validation.
However, the real hefty lifting is done by government agencies. As
the end consumer essentially ends up paying for the base information
twice (once
to Jeppesen and once through their taxes), I'll side with the OP and say
that Jeppesen is indeed overpriced.


And, the companies, Jeppesen and Garmin, aren't in business for the
fun of it.



Yup, and they are welcome to charge as much as they can get for it.
And they
can charge a lot for it because they are the only game in town.
However,
if there was any other source for this information, you can bet I for
one
would be encouraging the competition.


The taxpayers pay for instrument approach procedures and
route/development maintenance.

The nav database is of little use to anyone until Jeppesen does a lot
of work on it.

Special use airspace boundaries are painstakenly reconstructed by
Jeppesen from the arcane rule-making source. NACO has to do the same
to make Sectionals and TACs, and those aren't exactly free, either.

The compliation of airport, nav-aid and comm frequencies from many
sources isn't easy, either.

The taxpayer is being had by the fact NACO gives away its approach
charts. Those are distinct and separate from the development of the
IAP. No other country in the world gives away their approach charts.


I didn't know I would hit a nerve with you on this Sam. For aspiring
pilots with little or no money when taking lessons, its a pretty hefty
price tag to stay updated.

If you see it as hitting a nerve, so be it. From my perspective I see
far too many light airplane pilots bitch because they have to pay for
RNAV data.

And, for pilots with little or no money taking lessons, I think they
have picked the wrong endeavor.

On Oct 13, 3:12*am, Sam Spade wrote:

If you see it as hitting a nerve, so be it. *From my perspective I see
far too many light airplane pilots bitch because they have to pay for
RNAV data.

While I honestly don't mind paying a subscription price for RNAV data,
I'd say the price for what I get is way out of line as compared to the
paper product. Since my flying is local, and I carry paper charts and
plates as backup, I can't afford the rediculous yearly fee.

I just got around to updating my 430 card (3 years old) as I was to
take a XC from MS to OH to an airport that only had a GPS approach (no
ground based approach). I never made that trip and spent over $300 on
ONE approach not to be used. If this airport would have had a ground
based instrument approach, I still would have my 3 year old card in
the unit.

I would think the data once established is harvested electronically
for updates. Price for subscription with the advent of computers
should be coming down, not going up.

I'd have to agree with Jas. Maybe you have the means and money, but I
am a low end airplane owner. I can't justify putting 15K into somebody
else's pocket for rental fees, yet I don't have quite the full means
to maintain a plane on my own so something has to give. Partnership
is not an option I want to consider (and shouldn't have to).

The price for subscription does not promote safety. Reasonable to me
would be no more then $50 per year.

Sam Spade wrote:
Frank Stutzman wrote:
Sam Spade wrote:


A lot of effort goes into compiling the data; waypoints, nav aids,
frequencies, airport data, special use airspace boundaries and
altitudes, etc, etc.


Most of which is done on the tax payers dime.
Yes, Jeppesen does add value. For example, they compile it into
different formats for vendors as well as a lot of cross checking and
data validation.
However, the real hefty lifting is done by government agencies. As
the end consumer essentially ends up paying for the base information
twice (once
to Jeppesen and once through their taxes), I'll side with the OP and say
that Jeppesen is indeed overpriced.


And, the companies, Jeppesen and Garmin, aren't in business for the
fun of it.


Yup, and they are welcome to charge as much as they can get for it.
And they
can charge a lot for it because they are the only game in town. However,
if there was any other source for this information, you can bet I for one
would be encouraging the competition.

The taxpayers pay for instrument approach procedures and
route/development maintenance.

The nav database is of little use to anyone until Jeppesen does a lot of
work on it.

Special use airspace boundaries are painstakenly reconstructed by
Jeppesen from the arcane rule-making source. NACO has to do the same to
make Sectionals and TACs, and those aren't exactly free, either.

The compliation of airport, nav-aid and comm frequencies from many
sources isn't easy, either.

The taxpayer is being had by the fact NACO gives away its approach
charts. Those are distinct and separate from the development of the
IAP. No other country in the world gives away their approach charts.


That's not completely true, go to http://ais.fi/, click the IN ENGLISH
tab and then eAIP link. You will get the whole AIP, including all
route and approach charts.

A similar system is at least on the Estonian AIP pages.

--

Tauno Voipio (CPL(A), SE + ME IR)
tauno voipio (at) iki fi

Tauno Voipio wrote:

Sam Spade wrote:

Frank Stutzman wrote:

Sam Spade wrote:


A lot of effort goes into compiling the data; waypoints, nav aids,
frequencies, airport data, special use airspace boundaries and
altitudes, etc, etc.



Most of which is done on the tax payers dime. Yes, Jeppesen does add
value. For example, they compile it into different formats for
vendors as well as a lot of cross checking and data validation.
However, the real hefty lifting is done by government agencies. As
the end consumer essentially ends up paying for the base information
twice (once
to Jeppesen and once through their taxes), I'll side with the OP and say
that Jeppesen is indeed overpriced.


And, the companies, Jeppesen and Garmin, aren't in business for the
fun of it.



Yup, and they are welcome to charge as much as they can get for it.
And they
can charge a lot for it because they are the only game in town.
However,
if there was any other source for this information, you can bet I for
one
would be encouraging the competition.


The taxpayers pay for instrument approach procedures and
route/development maintenance.

The nav database is of little use to anyone until Jeppesen does a lot
of work on it.

Special use airspace boundaries are painstakenly reconstructed by
Jeppesen from the arcane rule-making source. NACO has to do the same
to make Sectionals and TACs, and those aren't exactly free, either.

The compliation of airport, nav-aid and comm frequencies from many
sources isn't easy, either.

The taxpayer is being had by the fact NACO gives away its approach
charts. Those are distinct and separate from the development of the
IAP. No other country in the world gives away their approach charts.



That's not completely true, go to http://ais.fi/, click the IN ENGLISH
tab and then eAIP link. You will get the whole AIP, including all
route and approach charts.

A similar system is at least on the Estonian AIP pages.

Because I told speak Fin I don't know what that is all about. If the
data are current that are the exception. And, I don't need to learn
seversl chart formats to fly internationally.

Sam Spade wrote:
Tauno Voipio wrote:

Sam Spade wrote:

Frank Stutzman wrote:

Sam Spade wrote:


A lot of effort goes into compiling the data; waypoints, nav aids,
frequencies, airport data, special use airspace boundaries and
altitudes, etc, etc.



Most of which is done on the tax payers dime. Yes, Jeppesen does add
value. For example, they compile it into different formats for
vendors as well as a lot of cross checking and data validation.
However, the real hefty lifting is done by government agencies. As
the end consumer essentially ends up paying for the base information
twice (once
to Jeppesen and once through their taxes), I'll side with the OP and
say
that Jeppesen is indeed overpriced.


And, the companies, Jeppesen and Garmin, aren't in business for the
fun of it.



Yup, and they are welcome to charge as much as they can get for it.
And they
can charge a lot for it because they are the only game in town.
However,
if there was any other source for this information, you can bet I
for one
would be encouraging the competition.


The taxpayers pay for instrument approach procedures and
route/development maintenance.

The nav database is of little use to anyone until Jeppesen does a lot
of work on it.

Special use airspace boundaries are painstakenly reconstructed by
Jeppesen from the arcane rule-making source. NACO has to do the same
to make Sectionals and TACs, and those aren't exactly free, either.

The compliation of airport, nav-aid and comm frequencies from many
sources isn't easy, either.

The taxpayer is being had by the fact NACO gives away its approach
charts. Those are distinct and separate from the development of the
IAP. No other country in the world gives away their approach charts.



That's not completely true, go to http://ais.fi/, click the IN ENGLISH
tab and then eAIP link. You will get the whole AIP, including all
route and approach charts.

A similar system is at least on the Estonian AIP pages.

Because I told speak Fin I don't know what that is all about. If the
data are current that are the exception. And, I don't need to learn
seversl chart formats to fly internationally.


Please read again: CLICK THE IN ENGLISH TAB, and try again.

There is an ICAO standard format for the charts,
which our AIS follows to the letter.

--

Tauno Voipio