Established on the approach - Checkride question

"endre" wrote in message
om...

I did my instrument checkride the other day and passed...

Question for this group.

I was being radar vectored for the SHN NDB approach. I was cleared in
the following way: Cessna 61786 14 miles from NDB descend and maintain
2000 until established.


That was all of it? There's no approach clearance there.



The problem: I was outside the 10 mile ring on the plate, established
on the inbound course, no way to tell when I would be inside 10 mile.
However, I would need to descend to 1400 before the NDB to have a
chance to descend to MDA of 900.

What would you all do?


If what's above is a verbatim quote of the instruction received, I'd request
an approach clearance.

I'm not sure what your concern is. The ten mile ring means nothing with
regard to where you can begin your descent.

Dead reckoning? If the course intercept time and length are too difficult
to interpolate safely and fly the airplane, I'd request a position update in
5 minutes (7.5-10 miles closer), or the PT.

The no way to tell where you are part of your question should be (in my
limited experience) a BIG RED FLAG, both for the approach and how you
conduct the flight in general. Ultimately, keeping your butt out of the
rocks is solely up to you.

"endre" wrote in message
om...
I did my instrument checkride the other day and passed...

Question for this group.

I was being radar vectored for the SHN NDB approach. I was cleared in
the following way: Cessna 61786 14 miles from NDB descend and maintain
2000 until established.

The problem: I was outside the 10 mile ring on the plate, established
on the inbound course, no way to tell when I would be inside 10 mile.
However, I would need to descend to 1400 before the NDB to have a
chance to descend to MDA of 900.

What would you all do?

Endre

: I was being radar vectored for the SHN NDB approach. I was cleared in
: the following way: Cessna 61786 14 miles from NDB descend and maintain
: 2000 until established.

Doesn't this imply that ATC was providiong terrain clearance?
While "established" is a bit ambiguous when shortcutting an IAP, it seems
that this 2000' clearance (should) provide safe operation between the
current position and the point of intersecting the 052 radial.

Is this true?

-Cory

--
************************************************** ***********************
* The prime directive of Linux: *
* - learn what you don't know, *
* - teach what you do. *
* (Just my 20 USm$) *
************************************************** ***********************

wrote in message
...

Doesn't this imply that ATC was providiong terrain clearance?


Yes.



While "established" is a bit ambiguous when shortcutting an IAP, it seems
that this 2000' clearance (should) provide safe operation between the
current position and the point of intersecting the 052 radial.

Is this true?


Yes. If that's a verbatim quote of the approach clearance it's pretty
sloppy on the part of the controller. I suspect the writer didn't remember
it quite right, even the sloppiest controllers tend to include the C-word in
their approach clearances.

How would you know when you're at the 10nm circle? Not sure, but I'll throw
this in for debate: lay your plotter's compass rose on KITSAP and line up
the 203 bearing. Read the radial off the compass rose that points to the
circle's edge. It looks like 180 might do it. Fly the final approach
course at 2000' until you intercept the 180 bearing from KITSAP and you're
at the 10nm ring.

Some might say that what's outside the circle is not to scale. But the
fact that there's no squiggly line in front of KITSAP says to me that it is
to scale.

Personally, this is the best reason to pick up that Garmin 295 or 196. You
can't use it for the approach, but you can use it for situational awareness
and identifying certain fixes that would otherwise be allusive.

Kobra
PP-SEL IA
"endre" wrote in message
om...
I did my instrument checkride the other day and passed...

Question for this group.

I was being radar vectored for the SHN NDB approach. I was cleared in
the following way: Cessna 61786 14 miles from NDB descend and maintain
2000 until established.

The problem: I was outside the 10 mile ring on the plate, established
on the inbound course, no way to tell when I would be inside 10 mile.
However, I would need to descend to 1400 before the NDB to have a
chance to descend to MDA of 900.

What would you all do?

Endre

Thanks for all your posts. Makes a lot of sense. Just to clarify. The
controller did also clear me for the NDB approach as part of his
clearance. Just did not put it into the verbatim.


"Kobra" wrote in message ...
How would you know when you're at the 10nm circle? Not sure, but I'll throw
this in for debate: lay your plotter's compass rose on KITSAP and line up
the 203 bearing. Read the radial off the compass rose that points to the
circle's edge. It looks like 180 might do it. Fly the final approach
course at 2000' until you intercept the 180 bearing from KITSAP and you're
at the 10nm ring.

Some might say that what's outside the circle is not to scale. But the
fact that there's no squiggly line in front of KITSAP says to me that it is
to scale.

Personally, this is the best reason to pick up that Garmin 295 or 196. You
can't use it for the approach, but you can use it for situational awareness
and identifying certain fixes that would otherwise be allusive.

Kobra
PP-SEL IA
"endre" wrote in message
om...
I did my instrument checkride the other day and passed...

Question for this group.

I was being radar vectored for the SHN NDB approach. I was cleared in
the following way: Cessna 61786 14 miles from NDB descend and maintain
2000 until established.

The problem: I was outside the 10 mile ring on the plate, established
on the inbound course, no way to tell when I would be inside 10 mile.
However, I would need to descend to 1400 before the NDB to have a
chance to descend to MDA of 900.

What would you all do?

Endre