Busted IFR Checkride

Allen,

Basically just nerves mostly... A couple of things contributed to that.
One was that I agreed to be this DE's first IFR checkride... that being
so, we had the FAA examiner with us examining him... My oral was 3 hours
long and this about wiped me out... He asked me everything under the
sun... I survived this but the weather took a turn for the worse so we
didn't go up after the oral portion. I was on my way home after the oral
when some turned their car right in front of me and before I could stop
I clipped their back end... First damn accident I have been in in 15
years or so... It kinda shook me up a little but I didn't think it was
too bad... This morning we were to do the flight portion of the
test... I had everything set up for my clearance and was told after take
off to intercept V305 and head north. I was then to to hold at the WELDO
intersection... I was thinking cool I have done exact thing several
times... What I didn't realize is that V305 is real close to V96 and I
had tuned in the wrong redial on the OBS... When things didn't start
centering when they should have I began to double check and caught my
error.. By the time I determined what was wrong I had blown through the
intersection and that threw me for a loop... I got confused and that is
when the DE said that it was an unsat maneuver... Really no excuses...
I blew it and will take responsibility... Look for my post next
Wednesday that I passed the recheck :-)

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL
Student-IA
A Lieberman wrote:

Jon Kraus wrote:


Took my IFR checkride today and busted... I screwed up the holding
pattern big time and that was that...



Hey Jon,

Appreciate your post. I am getting closer to that time.... What part
of holding did you bust, timing? Entry? Suggestions for my check ride
to come down the road???

Allen

Jon Kraus wrote:

Basically just nerves mostly... A couple of things contributed to
that. One was that I agreed to be this DE's first IFR checkride...
that being so, we had the FAA examiner with us examining him... My
oral was 3 hours long and this about wiped me out...

Holy cows Jon, your luck must be like mine except I had a DE that had
zillions of examinations behind him and he was accompanied by an FAA
examiner for my VFR license. I am not sure if you have been following
my progress, but you, at least fared out better, as I busted the oral
part! I didn't even get to fly.

It was brutal, as just like you, I spent a good 2 1/2 hours just on the
oral. I was told that because the FAA examiner was in with us, he had
to be STRICTLY by the book. The retake was much more relaxed (without
the FAA examiner) and of course covered things that I missed. Simple
things in retrospect, but I knew my nerves took over on me. DE said
next time I come out, I am looking to pass you. He felt bad, I could
really tell.

This morning we were to
do the flight portion of the test... I had everything set up for my
clearance and was told after take off to intercept V305 and head
north. I was then to to hold at the WELDO intersection... I was
thinking cool I have done exact thing several times... What I didn't
realize is that V305 is real close to V96 and I had tuned in the wrong
redial on the OBS... When things didn't start centering when they
should have I began to double check and caught my error.. By the time
I determined what was wrong I had blown through the intersection and
that threw me for a loop... I got confused and that is when the DE
said that it was an unsat maneuver... Really no excuses...

Like you said, it's nerves, and call it the human factor. Knowing you
had done it before, you should pass with flying colors the next time
Weldo intersection comes in your future. The whole process is nerve
wracking!

and will take responsibility... Look for my post next Wednesday that I
passed the recheck :-)

Look forward to this!

For me, I am just beginning the cross country part of my training.
Saturday will be my first CC (MBO to MEI). My choices of approaches are
very limited, as I don't have an ADF and only have a VFR only GPS in my
plane. So for my 3 approaches on my examination, would be VOR, ILS and
LOC approaches. I have a DME, so that can be used in the mix (DME Arc).
My instructor has been making me do back course approaches into JAN,
which I have to keep saying, pull the needle in, pull the needle in.
Really sensitive approach I have been told and experienced. So far, I
have 72 approaches into MBO, JAN and HKS. I think my instructor is
looking for a "change" :-))

As far as holds, he has had me try three different times. One time, it
was brutal as it was 10 seconds out bound, and 1 minute 30 seconds
inbound due to the winds aloft. We got it on the third go round.

Again, good luck on your retake. Sounds like you've been there, so it's
a matter of doing it, and not needing "luck"

Thanks for replying!

Allen

This DE is actually a very nice guy... He just had to do what he had to
do... I was too far outside of PTS and that gave him no choice... I know
he wants me to pass and next time I'm sure I will... He called me later
in the day to see how I was and let me know that even though busting a
checkride is is an ego deflation it is not the end of the world... He is
even cool enough to not charge me for either the initial checkride or
the retake because I agreed to be his first IFR exam... He has a ton of
Private Pilot exams behind him but I am his first Instrument ride.
Actually the FAA examiner was very nice too.. She said she felt bad that
I failed too and that she thought that her being there might had
contributed to my "case of the nerves". I don't think so at all... I
basically just plain ****ed up... No more no less.. I appreciate
everyone support on this... I knew you all would understand... Thanks
again. Jon

A Lieberman wrote:

Jon Kraus wrote:



Basically just nerves mostly... A couple of things contributed to
that. One was that I agreed to be this DE's first IFR checkride...
that being so, we had the FAA examiner with us examining him... My
oral was 3 hours long and this about wiped me out...



Holy cows Jon, your luck must be like mine except I had a DE that had
zillions of examinations behind him and he was accompanied by an FAA
examiner for my VFR license. I am not sure if you have been following
my progress, but you, at least fared out better, as I busted the oral
part! I didn't even get to fly.

It was brutal, as just like you, I spent a good 2 1/2 hours just on the
oral. I was told that because the FAA examiner was in with us, he had
to be STRICTLY by the book. The retake was much more relaxed (without
the FAA examiner) and of course covered things that I missed. Simple
things in retrospect, but I knew my nerves took over on me. DE said
next time I come out, I am looking to pass you. He felt bad, I could
really tell.



This morning we were to
do the flight portion of the test... I had everything set up for my
clearance and was told after take off to intercept V305 and head
north. I was then to to hold at the WELDO intersection... I was
thinking cool I have done exact thing several times... What I didn't
realize is that V305 is real close to V96 and I had tuned in the wrong
redial on the OBS... When things didn't start centering when they
should have I began to double check and caught my error.. By the time
I determined what was wrong I had blown through the intersection and
that threw me for a loop... I got confused and that is when the DE
said that it was an unsat maneuver... Really no excuses...



Like you said, it's nerves, and call it the human factor. Knowing you
had done it before, you should pass with flying colors the next time
Weldo intersection comes in your future. The whole process is nerve
wracking!



and will take responsibility... Look for my post next Wednesday that I
passed the recheck :-)



Look forward to this!

For me, I am just beginning the cross country part of my training.
Saturday will be my first CC (MBO to MEI). My choices of approaches are
very limited, as I don't have an ADF and only have a VFR only GPS in my
plane. So for my 3 approaches on my examination, would be VOR, ILS and
LOC approaches. I have a DME, so that can be used in the mix (DME Arc).
My instructor has been making me do back course approaches into JAN,
which I have to keep saying, pull the needle in, pull the needle in.
Really sensitive approach I have been told and experienced. So far, I
have 72 approaches into MBO, JAN and HKS. I think my instructor is
looking for a "change" :-))

As far as holds, he has had me try three different times. One time, it
was brutal as it was 10 seconds out bound, and 1 minute 30 seconds
inbound due to the winds aloft. We got it on the third go round.

Again, good luck on your retake. Sounds like you've been there, so it's
a matter of doing it, and not needing "luck"

Thanks for replying!

Allen

"A Lieberman" wrote in message =
...
| Jon Kraus wrote:
|=20
snip
| Knowing you had done it before, you should pass with flying colors the =
next time
| Weldo intersection comes in your future.
snip

I don't mean to throw icy, bone-chilling cold water on Jon's hopes (if I =
ever get back into flying, I'll be working on my own IR, after all!), =
but this assumes the DE will use WELDO for the re-test. Is the DE =
obligated to use a different intersection? Or is that strictly the DE's =
discretion?

I'm sure you know, Jon, that you shouldn't spend 40 hours between now & =
Wed flying fixes at WELDO, lol! This is more just a curiosity question.

TIA!

Mike T.
--=20
When I had Money, I could fly.
Then I got Married...then we got a Mortgage...then we had a Munchkin.
She has three Ms, I have none. I'm...
2Poor2Fly4Real

(remove "nospam" from address for direct replies)

Jon Kraus wrote:

Took my IFR checkride today and busted... I screwed up the holding
pattern big time and that was that..

What doesn't kill you will only serve to make you stronger.

Sorry about the bust, but good job pulling yourself out of the "feel
sorry for myself slump" into which you almost slid.

BTW, to answer your hold question: FWIW, after flying about 350 hours
IFR (most of those hours were not IMC, mind you) in a spam can in the
busy Northeast US, I have yet to have a hold assigned. Perhaps it was
the fact that I flew most of those hours in a C172 where ground speed
was often measured with two digits, not three. ;-)

--
Peter

"Peter R." wrote in message
...
Jon Kraus wrote:

Took my IFR checkride today and busted... I screwed up the holding
pattern big time and that was that..

BTW, to answer your hold question: FWIW, after flying about 350 hours
IFR (most of those hours were not IMC, mind you) in a spam can in the
busy Northeast US, I have yet to have a hold assigned. Perhaps it was
the fact that I flew most of those hours in a C172 where ground speed
was often measured with two digits, not three. ;-)

As I said recently, fly approaches into a popular untowered airport enough
times, and you'll get held while the controller tries to confirm the guy
before you really landed. For extra credit, do that in IMC. Don't mentally
block the unexpected hold instruction and keep motoring on, or the
controller will have to patiently deliver you back to the fix. No, never
happened to me, not even in training, no siree.

Jon, you're almost there. Hang in.

-- David Brooks

David Brooks wrote:

As I said recently, fly approaches into a popular untowered airport enough
times, and you'll get held while the controller tries to confirm the guy
before you really landed.

Good point. Most of my IFR flights have been to towered airports.

--
Peter

"Peter R." wrote in message =
...
David Brooks wrote:=20
=20
As I said recently, fly approaches into a popular untowered airport =
enough
times, and you'll get held while the controller tries to confirm the =
guy
before you really landed.=20
=20
Good point. Most of my IFR flights have been to towered airports.=20
=20
--=20
Peter
=20

You'll often see holds for traffic at some towered airports, too.
Places like Hailey, Idaho (Sun Valley's airport) are situated in a box =
canyon.
Hailey is far below Salt Lake Center's radar coverage, and there's only
one way in and back out, so only one IFR aircraft will be operating at a =
time.
In VMC, Hailey tower advises everyone, coming and going,
"Remain to the right of the highway".

South Lake Tahoe, California, comes to mind as another place like that.
(Except of course there's no highway up the middle of lake Tahoe :-)

Before Aspen got their radar, the situation there was similar, also .
It used to be considered courteous for Aspen arrivals to cancel IFR
as soon as the field was in sight, so a departing aircraft could be =
released.
---JRC---

Jon Kraus wrote:
Took my IFR checkride today and busted... I screwed up the holding
pattern big time and that was that... At first I was so damn fustrated
that I told the DE that I just want to head back to the airport... Then
I thought to myself "what are you going to do there pout?" :-) I then
decided to go ahead with the rest of the ride and get it out of the way.
I did OK... not great but passable... This DE made it pretty easy on
me... He was telling me about his IFR checkride and him busting on his
first attempt too... He busted on the holding pattern too so I didn't
feel that bad.. He now has 14,000+ hours and doesn't worry about his
busted IFR checkride so I figured why should I... Now I just need to go
back up with my instructor once, do the freakn' holding pattern... Go
back up with the DE... do the freakn' holding pattern and be done...
More to follow...

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL
Student-IA Argggg...


He's right, don't sweat it. I've never yet flown a holding pattern on a
real IFR flight. Well, I flew a holding "pattern" over DC one evening
on an IFR flight into Washington National, but it was VMC and the hold
consisted of flying circles over a spot the controller told me to fly
around! So my circles around a point training for my private was of
greater use than my holding pattern instruction. :-)


Matt

Well, Jon, it's clear to me that you must have done a LOT of things right
for the ride, since the holding pattern was the only thing that nipped you.
I know ya feel disappointed and there's not much to say, other than to point
out that you took what most of the instructors I've spoken to, is one of the
hardest rides. I swear I'll never understand why it's only an 'add-on'
rating to the Private (so-to-speak) when it seems that it should be a
complete 'ticket' in itself.

Adding the final touches to your holding pattern technique, should be a lot
easier, now that you can devote your time with your instructor just working
on holding patterns (i.e., since you passed all the rest, there will be no
need to practice them again for the follow-up checkride).

If I don't pass my Instrument checkride the first time, I hope I can do as
well as you did - that is, do well on everything except one small item.

Really, man,,, in the scheme of things you did REALLY good and you'll be on
'easy street' on your next ride 'cause you'll only have one thing to do and
you'll do it well!

--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL
Student-IASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -
"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...
Took my IFR checkride today and busted... I screwed up the holding
pattern big time and that was that... At first I was so damn fustrated
that I told the DE that I just want to head back to the airport... Then
I thought to myself "what are you going to do there pout?" :-) I then
decided to go ahead with the rest of the ride and get it out of the way.
I did OK... not great but passable... This DE made it pretty easy on
me... He was telling me about his IFR checkride and him busting on his
first attempt too... He busted on the holding pattern too so I didn't
feel that bad.. He now has 14,000+ hours and doesn't worry about his
busted IFR checkride so I figured why should I... Now I just need to go
back up with my instructor once, do the freakn' holding pattern... Go
back up with the DE... do the freakn' holding pattern and be done...
More to follow...

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL
Student-IA Argggg...