Holds on autopilot?

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
oups.com...


From the PTS for ATP V Instrument
B: Holding
9 ) Arrives over the holding fix as close as possible to the
"expect further clearance" time.


Thanks for that reference, Robert. I have not read the ATP PTS but have
never seen any other reference to using EFC in a hold. I still have no idea
why it would be so, other than just as a checkride device. It contradicts
the standard FAA references that I quoted.

Stan

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
ups.com...


The 4,3 and 2 are the standard holds a pilot has in his bag. So if he
needs to hold for 7 minutes, he starts with a 4 and then does a 3, and
he's back at the fix, ready for the approach. A 4 minute hold is 1
minute out, a 3 minute hold is 30 seconds out, and a 2 minute hold is a
circle. These are standard training techniques for teaching holds.


I don't know what you mean by standard training techniques. Maybe they are
your standards. There is no reference to such techniques, that I am aware
of, in any of the FAA materials, and I have never seen any published non-FAA
instrument training book that mentions such techniques. I would appreciate
knowing about them. Everything I have ever read just says to adjust your
last time around to cross at the specified time (not EFC time). There are
limits, of course. If you are just beginning your outbound turn (for
example), and ATC calls and says to cross the fix one minute later, you
ain't gonna make it.



Because simulator guys don't need to take checkrides, they don't need
to wait for further clearance. They're trying to reproduce real life,
in real life you almost never get assigned formal holds. I think you
take the gamers way to seriously.


I don't understand where gamers fit into this exchange, I took issue with
your statements, not a gamer's. I and other real-life pilots have disputed,
based on real-life experience, your repeated assertion that in real life you
almost never get assigned formal holds. And I dispute any positive value to
such a statement, and would assign it a negative value, for the reasons
already stated.

Stan Prevost wrote:
"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
oups.com...


From the PTS for ATP V Instrument
B: Holding
9 ) Arrives over the holding fix as close as possible to the
"expect further clearance" time.


Thanks for that reference, Robert. I have not read the ATP PTS but have
never seen any other reference to using EFC in a hold. I still have no idea
why it would be so, other than just as a checkride device. It contradicts
the standard FAA references that I quoted.

Yes, your right that it contradicts the Instrument Flying Handbook. Not
sure if there is a revision in the works for either or if the FAA is
happy for them to disagree. We're still basically teaching the same
for both checkrides. IR or ATP, we pretty much teach the same
instrument stuff since a lot of the IR students plan on taking the ATP
checkride when able.

-Robert

I don't understand where gamers fit into this exchange, I took issue with
your statements, not a gamer's.

If you've watched these groups for long you would know that Mxsmanic is
not a real pilot. He is a gamer and will not likely ever set foot in a
real plane. If you can find a good reason for gamers to play with holds
go ahead.

-Robert