Stalls??

Stefan wrote:
John Smith schrieb:

How many instructors teach their students that it only takes a slight
push on the yoke at the onset of buffet to prevent the stall. Too many
pilots shove the yoke much farther forward (into a descent) than is
necessary.

While not necessairy, it is'n a bad thing, either. Get that sped up
quickly, and it's much better to drop the nose too much than too little.
Why should a pilot be afraid of a dive?

Since most of the practice and training we do at altitude is actually
designed to be used at or below pattern altitude, IMHO getting into the
habit of going into a dive to escape a stall situation is probably not
the best idea.

I was taught to recover from a stall with minimum altitude loss.

On Feb 14, 7:49 am, "Neil Gould" wrote:
Recently, posted:

Every flight in a light GA single should end in a full stall...right
as the wheels roll on to the runway...Unless folks know how to
handle the plane in a stall, they will not learn to land correctly
(I know this will start the flames!)-

That's a sweet ending, though -- flames or not -- especially when the
stall horn blows and the wheels just start turning.

Yeah baby!

Curious... in the Cessnas and Pipers that I fly the stall horn blows at
least 5 kts before the stall. So, when the stall horn is blowing and the
wheels touch down, the plane is still flying.

Neil

Too many people overlook that. Even the POH will tell
you that the horn blows at 5 to 10 kts before the stall.
It's difficult to get a "full stall" in the landing in most
lightplanes without banging the tail on the runway; the fuselage
geometry won't allow it. Airplanes like the Zenair 701/801 have been
designed to fix that. And with the nose high at touchdown, the AOA is
lower than with the nose at that attitude approaching a power-off
stall in the air, since the airplane is likely already sinking
somewhat at altitude, and its flightpath increases the AOA at that
deck angle.
I get the horn blaring at ten feet BEFORE touchdown. Now
we're at a reasonable speed. No float in this situation.

It appears that instructors are increasingly afraid of the
airplanes they teach in. Pretty soon they'll be afraid to teach 30°
banked turns at cruise speed. I think it's a result of the overall
dumbing-down of society, where we are told WHAT to think, not HOW to
think. The media tells us which political leaders to vote for. They
tell us what to think (and what to believe) about various hot-potato
issues. The problem with that, besides making us lazy thinkers, is
that they are trying to redesign society along their own agendas.
Everyone knows that the media is infiltrated by a wide assortment of
social engineers.
The flight instructors just parrot stuff from the books and
from their instructors, with some urban legends thrown in. They don't
KNOW from experience; they just REPEAT something they were told. So
they end up scared of stalls and spins and slow flight and little
puffy clouds and five-knot crosswinds.

Dan

Here again I am appalled at the comments. Disclosu Old, old ex-pilot -
learned to fly in the '40's.

Did no one ever hear of walking the rudders down? It's a coordination
exercise. Power on, you pull the nose up to about 60 degrees from horizontal
and walk the rudders all the way down, preventing the plane from falling off
to eithor side. After years of flying, I still did 'em just to test my own
reaction times. When learning, it was also great practice in spin recovery,
too.

Man, am I outdated! A 40 hour freshly licensed pilot with a fear of stalls
was unknown in my day.

"birdog" wrote in
:

Here again I am appalled at the comments. Disclosu Old, old
ex-pilot - learned to fly in the '40's.

Did no one ever hear of walking the rudders down? It's a coordination
exercise. Power on, you pull the nose up to about 60 degrees from
horizontal and walk the rudders all the way down, preventing the plane
from falling off to eithor side. After years of flying, I still did
'em just to test my own reaction times. When learning, it was also
great practice in spin recovery, too.

Man, am I outdated! A 40 hour freshly licensed pilot with a fear of
stalls was unknown in my day.


Yep. also called a falling leaf. I taugth them as did the guys I learned
from .


Bertie

"birdog" wrote in message
. ..
Here again I am appalled at the comments. Disclosu Old, old ex-pilot -
learned to fly in the '40's.

Did no one ever hear of walking the rudders down? It's a coordination
exercise. Power on, you pull the nose up to about 60 degrees from
horizontal and walk the rudders all the way down, preventing the plane
from falling off to eithor side. After years of flying, I still did 'em
just to test my own reaction times. When learning, it was also great
practice in spin recovery, too.

Man, am I outdated! A 40 hour freshly licensed pilot with a fear of stalls
was unknown in my day.

Correction: That's INTENTIONAL stalls!

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote in
:

Blueskies wrote:
Every flight in a light GA single should end in a full stall...right
as the wheels roll on to the runway...Unless folks know how to handle
the plane in a stall, they will not learn to land correctly (I know
this will start the flames!)

I had just started with a Part 135 cargo outfit and was doing the
initial training in a C-402. The check airman asked me for a stall.
I gave him a stall. I thought he and the other new hire were going to
****.

"Didn't you understand I wanted a stall? Give me another."

So I did. Just like before, the plane got pretty mushy and then it
broke cleanly. Once again, I thought they were going to ****. They
were visibly uncomfortable and I had no clue why.

Finally the check airman said, "When I ask for a stall, I expect you
to recover before it actually breaks."

"Well, why didn't you just say you wanted an 'approach to a stall'", I
asked. "What's the problem with doing a full stall in the 402?"

"We hever do full stalls in a twin", he said. The other guy agreed.

I can't see any reason why you couldn't either. Did they pass you BTW?



Bertie


In my multi-engine check ride (in a Baron B55), when I did the requested
stall, the left wing dropped quite suddenly, and for a nano-second I
thought that we would end-up in a spin. It's been a while, but I seem
to remember that we were not that high either. In fact, the evaluator
complimented me on the recovery, adding that if I had not recovered it
right at the start, we would not have had time to do so. That was quite
a scary moment. Even scarier, in all the practices I had done, I had
never experienced such behavior.

RdKetchup wrote in news:fp1qd2$ot9$1
@dns3.cae.ca:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote in
:

Blueskies wrote:
Every flight in a light GA single should end in a full
stall...right
as the wheels roll on to the runway...Unless folks know how to
handle
the plane in a stall, they will not learn to land correctly (I know
this will start the flames!)

I had just started with a Part 135 cargo outfit and was doing the
initial training in a C-402. The check airman asked me for a stall.
I gave him a stall. I thought he and the other new hire were going
to
****.

"Didn't you understand I wanted a stall? Give me another."

So I did. Just like before, the plane got pretty mushy and then it
broke cleanly. Once again, I thought they were going to ****. They
were visibly uncomfortable and I had no clue why.

Finally the check airman said, "When I ask for a stall, I expect you
to recover before it actually breaks."

"Well, why didn't you just say you wanted an 'approach to a stall'",
I
asked. "What's the problem with doing a full stall in the 402?"

"We hever do full stalls in a twin", he said. The other guy agreed.

I can't see any reason why you couldn't either. Did they pass you
BTW?



Bertie


In my multi-engine check ride (in a Baron B55), when I did the
requested
stall, the left wing dropped quite suddenly, and for a nano-second I
thought that we would end-up in a spin. It's been a while, but I seem
to remember that we were not that high either. In fact, the evaluator
complimented me on the recovery, adding that if I had not recovered it
right at the start, we would not have had time to do so. That was
quite
a scary moment. Even scarier, in all the practices I had done, I had
never experienced such behavior.


Well, a real good reason for getting familiar in more docile airplanes,
eh?


Bertie

wrote in message
...
It's difficult to get a "full stall" in the landing in most
lightplanes without banging the tail on the runway; the fuselage
geometry won't allow it.

IMHO, this is why many taildraggers like or benefit from touching down
tailwheel first.

Airplanes like the Zenair 701/801 have been
designed to fix that.

And with the nose high at touchdown, the AOA is
lower than with the nose at that attitude approaching a power-off
stall in the air, since the airplane is likely already sinking
somewhat at altitude, and its flightpath increases the AOA at that
deck angle.

IAITT, I agree but am not sure, I suspect poor wording.

I get the horn blaring at ten feet BEFORE touchdown. Now
we're at a reasonable speed. No float in this situation.

It appears that instructors are increasingly afraid of the
airplanes they teach in. Pretty soon they'll be afraid to teach 30°
banked turns at cruise speed. I think it's a result of the overall
dumbing-down of society, where we are told WHAT to think, not HOW to
think. The media tells us which political leaders to vote for. They
tell us what to think (and what to believe) about various hot-potato
issues. The problem with that, besides making us lazy thinkers, is
that they are trying to redesign society along their own agendas.
Everyone knows that the media is infiltrated by a wide assortment of
social engineers.

I agree. IMHO, Some more benevalent than others, some ignorant, some/most
just lazy, some downright malevolent.

The flight instructors just parrot stuff from the books and
from their instructors, with some urban legends thrown in. They don't
KNOW from experience; they just REPEAT something they were told. So
they end up scared of stalls and spins and slow flight and little
puffy clouds and five-knot crosswinds.

Far too many are ~231 hr. wonders. IMHO the little bit higher rates charged
by more qualified (and often greyer) instructors is very good value. Mine
made me comfortable (and most enjoy playing and exploring) with the top left
of the envelope.

Dan

Where is your home airport?

Happy landings,

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
RdKetchup wrote in news:fp1qd2$ot9$1
@dns3.cae.ca:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote in
:

Blueskies wrote:
Every flight in a light GA single should end in a full
stall...right
as the wheels roll on to the runway...Unless folks know how to
handle
the plane in a stall, they will not learn to land correctly (I know
this will start the flames!)
I had just started with a Part 135 cargo outfit and was doing the
initial training in a C-402. The check airman asked me for a stall.
I gave him a stall. I thought he and the other new hire were going
to
****.

"Didn't you understand I wanted a stall? Give me another."

So I did. Just like before, the plane got pretty mushy and then it
broke cleanly. Once again, I thought they were going to ****. They
were visibly uncomfortable and I had no clue why.

Finally the check airman said, "When I ask for a stall, I expect you
to recover before it actually breaks."

"Well, why didn't you just say you wanted an 'approach to a stall'",
I
asked. "What's the problem with doing a full stall in the 402?"

"We hever do full stalls in a twin", he said. The other guy agreed.
I can't see any reason why you couldn't either. Did they pass you
BTW?


Bertie

In my multi-engine check ride (in a Baron B55), when I did the
requested
stall, the left wing dropped quite suddenly, and for a nano-second I
thought that we would end-up in a spin. It's been a while, but I seem
to remember that we were not that high either. In fact, the evaluator
complimented me on the recovery, adding that if I had not recovered it
right at the start, we would not have had time to do so. That was
quite
a scary moment. Even scarier, in all the practices I had done, I had
never experienced such behavior.


Well, a real good reason for getting familiar in more docile airplanes,
eh?


Bertie

Yep, luckily spin training was part of the curriculum when I was getting
my PPL and commercial licenses. In fact, spin practices in the school
Beech Sundowner where a lot of fun, some of my best memories from the
training.

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
.. .
"birdog" wrote in
:

Here again I am appalled at the comments. Disclosu Old, old
ex-pilot - learned to fly in the '40's.

Did no one ever hear of walking the rudders down? It's a coordination
exercise. Power on, you pull the nose up to about 60 degrees from
horizontal and walk the rudders all the way down, preventing the plane
from falling off to eithor side. After years of flying, I still did
'em just to test my own reaction times. When learning, it was also
great practice in spin recovery, too.

Man, am I outdated! A 40 hour freshly licensed pilot with a fear of
stalls was unknown in my day.


Yep. also called a falling leaf. I taugth them as did the guys I learned
from .


Bertie

The falling leaf is fun, and a great exercise in picking up a dropping wing.
I like to do them along a road to maintain heading.

Happy landings,