About German Mystery Objects

"Aerophotos" wrote in message
...
Well i believe in the German UFO technology in WW2 and jet propelled
objects disc shapes.


No surprise there.

If the German scientists and co were so much more advanced then the
Allies with jets and new inventions from 1930s-1945, who knows what else
was created that after the war the Allies dare not want the public to
see..


They werent. The Gloster Meteor entered service before the Me-262
and the British and US jet engines were more powerful and reliable.

Even today WW1 secret dealing with US army records are still highly
guarded.. so i can suspect we only saw a tip of iceberg from ww2.

Remember the german as we know were very creative with jets in 40s in
the designs.. so they had big plans by the 50s if it had occurred.
Virtually all US designs followed from them.


Incorrect

Flying wings or discs were nothing new... why do americans think they
are the only ones to be right? Thats is always how americans think,
someone esle designed it but they claim it.


Probably because Jack Northrop flew his first flying wing aircraft
in 1940

Keith

In article ,
Keith Willshaw wrote:
Flying wings or discs were nothing new... why do americans think they

Probably because Jack Northrop flew his first flying wing aircraft
in 1940

And the Westland-Hill Pterodactyl was flying in the late 1920s, IIRC.
A later version lost out to the Hawker Demon as the RAF two-seat
fighter of the mid-30s, so on this you're right: Flying wings were
*nothing* new, and neither were tailless aeroplanes.

--
Andy Breen ~ Interplanetary Scintillation Research Group
http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/
"Time has stopped, says the Black Lion clock
and eternity has begun" (Dylan Thomas)

"Eunometic" wrote in message
om...
Bernardz wrote in message
news:MPG.1a9b8d33930402ad9898f6@news...
In article ,
says...
Some say the technology came from an alien UFO that crashed near
Freiberg in 1936 and was taken to Himmler's castle at Wewelsberg,
reverse engineered. Nevertheless, Thule and Vril continued development
of these RFZ (RundFlugZeug) with models 1-6 up to 1939. By the start
of the war Vril had their own designs of which the often-quoted V-7 is
mentioned. This is a mislabel as it is not part of the

The designation V-1, V-2 etc was not used till late in the war.

The designation V was for "Versuchs" the German word for experimental.
Most german protduction aircraft had up to 30-100 V series aircraft

This is incorrect. V as it related to the V-1 buzz bomb and V-2 rocket was
for "Vergeileitung" (sp?) which translantes into "Vengeance." Meant to
retaliate for bombing raids on Hamburg, Berlin, etc.

The V-designation was applied to the V-1 cruise missile, the V-2 rocket, and
the V-3 cannon project which was never completed. There were other guided
missiles, bombs, etc. that were developed but they did not have
V-designations. (The missiles used to sink the Italian battleship Roma, for
isntance, or the Wasserfall surface to air missile concept.) Before
recieving the "V-2" designation, Dr. Von Braun's rocket was known as the
A-4.

As for the UFO stuff, it is nonsense. The proponents invariably post some
sort of cock and bull talem then ask people to prove it wrong. The onus of
proof is on them, and they try to avoid that because they have none. I mean,
if I were a German strategic type in 1945 and I had some super-craft, I'd
darn sure want to use it. Maybe against, say, the Russians? I mean they
would have had a lot of motivation there.

DEP

"David E. Powell" wrote in message ws.com...
"Eunometic" wrote in message
om...
Bernardz wrote in message
news:MPG.1a9b8d33930402ad9898f6@news...
In article ,
says...
Some say the technology came from an alien UFO that crashed near
Freiberg in 1936 and was taken to Himmler's castle at Wewelsberg,
reverse engineered. Nevertheless, Thule and Vril continued development
of these RFZ (RundFlugZeug) with models 1-6 up to 1939. By the start
of the war Vril had their own designs of which the often-quoted V-7 is
mentioned. This is a mislabel as it is not part of the

The designation V-1, V-2 etc was not used till late in the war.

The designation V was for "Versuchs" the German word for experimental.
Most german protduction aircraft had up to 30-100 V series aircraft

This is incorrect.

The above sentence is entirely correct. German prototypes always had
a "V" series designation. Any book on German aircraft always lists
this.

V as it related to the V-1 buzz bomb and V-2 rocket was
for "Vergeileitung" (sp?) which translantes into "Vengeance." Meant to
retaliate for bombing raids on Hamburg, Berlin, etc.

The proper designation of the "Buzz Bomb" was Fiesler Fi 103 and that
of the "V2" was A4. Preceding the A4 was an A1,A2,A3.

The term "Vergeileitung" translates more accurately as "Reprisal".

The terms were applied both for their abillity to deceive allied
intelligence (thus the V1 Fi103 could be made to appear as a prototype
Flakzielgaraete" or aerial targed drone and the propaganda value as a
'reprisal' for the saturation bombing of German cities.



The V-designation was applied to the V-1 cruise missile, the V-2 rocket, and
the V-3 cannon project which was never completed. There were other guided
missiles, bombs, etc. that were developed but they did not have
V-designations. (The missiles used to sink the Italian battleship Roma, for
isntance, or the Wasserfall surface to air missile concept.) Before
recieving the "V-2" designation, Dr. Von Braun's rocket was known as the
A-4.

Quite right but as I pointed out the V designation had a duel purpose:
it allowed the Germans to misrepresent their weapons as part of a
series of prototypes in accordance with the Reich Luftfahrt
Ministeriums standards for deisgnation.

Eg Ju 188 V2 meant a derivative of the Ju 88 and the second
experimental protoype (Versuchs 2) thereof. The first series in
production was usually an "A" series aircraft but not always if there
were high altitude pressurised versions or clipped wing versions for
instance.



As for the UFO stuff, it is nonsense. The proponents invariably post some
sort of cock and bull talem then ask people to prove it wrong. The onus of
proof is on them, and they try to avoid that because they have none. I mean,
if I were a German strategic type in 1945 and I had some super-craft, I'd
darn sure want to use it. Maybe against, say, the Russians? I mean they
would have had a lot of motivation there.

The Philidelphia Experiment also existed as an allied equivalent.

There do appear to have been "foo fighters" or reports filed by allied
aircrew of them that might be traced.

These may have been atmopheric phenomena, they may have been some
unusual lifting body aircraft probably a prototype with some kind of
pulse/ramjet system with lots of external flame that was being used as
some type of contact aircraft.

An aircraft with a speed of 600mph would have looked miraculouse at
the time. I don't discount that possiblity. I do discount the ideas
of exotic energies and propulsions systems based on Vril or some such
nonsense.




DEP

"Eunometic" wrote in message
om...
"David E. Powell" wrote in message
ws.com...
"Eunometic" wrote in message
om...
Bernardz wrote in message
news:MPG.1a9b8d33930402ad9898f6@news...
In article ,
says...
Some say the technology came from an alien UFO that crashed near
Freiberg in 1936 and was taken to Himmler's castle at Wewelsberg,
reverse engineered. Nevertheless, Thule and Vril continued
development
of these RFZ (RundFlugZeug) with models 1-6 up to 1939. By the
start
of the war Vril had their own designs of which the often-quoted
V-7 is
mentioned. This is a mislabel as it is not part of the

The designation V-1, V-2 etc was not used till late in the war.

The designation V was for "Versuchs" the German word for experimental.
Most german protduction aircraft had up to 30-100 V series aircraft

This is incorrect.

The above sentence is entirely correct. German prototypes always had
a "V" series designation. Any book on German aircraft always lists
this.

OK. I was confusing the use of the word in the areas of "psychological
warfare" vs. experimentalism.

V as it related to the V-1 buzz bomb and V-2 rocket was
for "Vergeileitung" (sp?) which translantes into "Vengeance." Meant to
retaliate for bombing raids on Hamburg, Berlin, etc.

The proper designation of the "Buzz Bomb" was Fiesler Fi 103 and that
of the "V2" was A4. Preceding the A4 was an A1,A2,A3.

Nod.

The term "Vergeileitung" translates more accurately as "Reprisal".

Thank you.

The terms were applied both for their abillity to deceive allied
intelligence (thus the V1 Fi103 could be made to appear as a prototype
Flakzielgaraete" or aerial targed drone and the propaganda value as a
'reprisal' for the saturation bombing of German cities.


The V-designation was applied to the V-1 cruise missile, the V-2 rocket,
and
the V-3 cannon project which was never completed. There were other
guided
missiles, bombs, etc. that were developed but they did not have
V-designations. (The missiles used to sink the Italian battleship Roma,
for
isntance, or the Wasserfall surface to air missile concept.) Before
recieving the "V-2" designation, Dr. Von Braun's rocket was known as the
A-4.

Quite right but as I pointed out the V designation had a duel purpose:
it allowed the Germans to misrepresent their weapons as part of a
series of prototypes in accordance with the Reich Luftfahrt
Ministeriums standards for deisgnation.

OK. Thanks for clearing this up.

Eg Ju 188 V2 meant a derivative of the Ju 88 and the second
experimental protoype (Versuchs 2) thereof. The first series in
production was usually an "A" series aircraft but not always if there
were high altitude pressurised versions or clipped wing versions for
instance.

OK

As for the UFO stuff, it is nonsense. The proponents invariably post
some
sort of cock and bull talem then ask people to prove it wrong. The onus
of
proof is on them, and they try to avoid that because they have none. I
mean,
if I were a German strategic type in 1945 and I had some super-craft,
I'd
darn sure want to use it. Maybe against, say, the Russians? I mean they
would have had a lot of motivation there.

The Philidelphia Experiment also existed as an allied equivalent.

From all the rumors/stuff I heave heard about it, they alleged that it
happened but failed badly. I can't vouch for those stories having credence.
But if they had tried it once, one thinks the tech would have been worked
with since. No real evidence that this is the case, though. The fact that
crew and records of the ship mentioned deny it up and down comes to mind
also. It seems another "urban legend." Though it was an OK movie.

There do appear to have been "foo fighters" or reports filed by allied
aircrew of them that might be traced.

These may have been atmopheric phenomena, they may have been some
unusual lifting body aircraft probably a prototype with some kind of
pulse/ramjet system with lots of external flame that was being used as
some type of contact aircraft.

Or some guy might have been pulling a lot of hours in complete darkness with
only cockpit panel lights, and a radar screen, and gotten a little crossed
on something. Or seen a shooting star or something. There are probably a
hundred logical possibilities, and in the absence of proof that there were
some wierd UFOs or Mach 1+ superfighters flying around in the mid 1940s,
they are the more likely explanations for this stuff.

An aircraft with a speed of 600mph would have looked miraculouse at
the time. I don't discount that possiblity.

Yeah, but if there was one, you think some pilot would have been jumping up
and down after all the fame Chuck Yeager got years later. Or the Astronauts
for that matter. Plus if the US captured a bunch, wouldn't they have sent
some to Korea or something in the 50s? Just some questions....

Not to mention that if the Germans had any plane they could get flying, they
sent it up in 1944/45. The Heinkel Salamander comes to mind, so does the
Messerschmitt Komet.

I do discount the ideas
of exotic energies and propulsions systems based on Vril or some such
nonsense.

I think we can safely agree there!

DEP

Bernardz wrote in message news:MPG.1a9b8d33930402ad9898f6@news...
In article ,
says...
Some say the technology came from an alien UFO that crashed near
Freiberg in 1936 and was taken to Himmler's castle at Wewelsberg,
reverse engineered. Nevertheless, Thule and Vril continued development
of these RFZ (RundFlugZeug) with models 1-6 up to 1939. By the start
of the war Vril had their own designs of which the often-quoted V-7 is
mentioned. This is a mislabel as it is not part of the

The designation V-1, V-2 etc was not used till late in the war.

The Vril-1 was flying by 1939, not the Vril-7. Postwar authors often
mentioned a secret V-7 weapon in their books suggesting a continuation
of the Vergeltungswaffen after the V-1 buzzbomb, V-2 BM, V-3 gun, and
final V-4 missile.


Vergeltungswaffen, just Vril-7. Meanwhile Thule came up with a more
advanced Triebwerk that utilized Coler's free energy machine, a Van
deGraf generator, a mercury sphere, and spherical levitators. This
engine was installed in the large Haunebu craft that flew the Atlantic
and made trips to an area Hitler knew would be safe from Allied
bombing, New Schwabenland in Antartica.

U-boats carried technicians and scientists to a base there, Number
211, via an undersea trench that stretched the entire way through what
was know formerly as Queen Maud Land. Base 211 was carved into a cave
complex similar to Nordhausen and supplied by transport subs,
components of which even the Type XXVI were taken. SS Antartic troops
maintained the base.



Never heard of a U-boat base being given a number. No Type XXVI was ever
built in the war. Work only started on it, late in the war so how is it
suppose to be available in 1939? Nor is SS Antartic listed in a
complete list of every SS-Divisionen formed during WWII.

Base 211 is often referenced as a code-name for the entire Antarctic
program and disc connection. And why WOULD a secret SS battalion be
listed among the combat divisions? The SS E-IV technical branch is
barely known along with the Black Sun SS religious Order, the DHvSS,
and the SS archeological unit that went to South America and Tibet...
among other places searching for sacred relics.
You really need to skip basic SS history and read up on the occult
aspects of the Third Reich before opening your mouth. You probably
aren't even aware that the Nazi Party (NSDAP) originated from the
occult Thule/Vril Gesellschafts from way back to 1917. Before that
Thule came from the German Order (aka Order of Teutons) of 1912 and
was also known as the "Luminous Lodge"- directly connected to the
Illuminati.
That's what makes all of this hard to deal with; the entire Third
Reich cannot be seperated from the occult, its symbolism, its mission,
and its plans for ultimate control over the planet.
Most people don't even recognize the swastika (Hakenkreuz) for what it
symbolizes- the black sun wheel that Thule and Vril worshipped. A dark
violet sun with dark powers. Vril is also the shortened version of
Vri-il "Like God". At the heart of all this is the worship of pure
evil.
Anyway, Base 211 is interesting to speculate on but no one could reach
it on land. Only a submarine could get there if the location was
known. I wonder if the US or USSR ever tried to find it in the trench?
The Germans probably mined the hell out of the area.

Rob

Vergeltungswaffen, just Vril-7. Meanwhile Thule came up with a more
advanced Triebwerk that utilized Coler's free energy machine, a Van
deGraf generator, a mercury sphere, and spherical levitators. This
engine was installed in the large Haunebu craft that flew the Atlantic
and made trips to an area Hitler knew would be safe from Allied
bombing, New Schwabenland in Antartica.

U-boats carried technicians and scientists to a base there, Number
211, via an undersea trench that stretched the entire way through what
was know formerly as Queen Maud Land. Base 211 was carved into a cave
complex similar to Nordhausen and supplied by transport subs,
components of which even the Type XXVI were taken. SS Antartic troops
maintained the base.



Never heard of a U-boat base being given a number. No Type XXVI was ever
built in the war. Work only started on it, late in the war so how is it
suppose to be available in 1939? Nor is SS Antartic listed in a
complete list of every SS-Divisionen formed during WWII.

Base 211 is often referenced as a code-name for the entire Antarctic
program and disc connection.

It is a very unusual German designation.

And why WOULD a secret SS battalion be
listed among the combat divisions?

I did not just check combat divisions! I looked at all. I also looked at
the units that we have little references and that *may* have existed.
Nothing like it. By the way German military records are very good.

Generally if it was an SS battalion it would be so designated eg
SS-Ausbildungs-Battalion or SS-Wirtschafts-Battalion but not always.



The SS E-IV technical branch is
barely known along with the Black Sun SS religious Order, the DHvSS,
and the SS archeological unit that went to South America and Tibet...
among other places searching for sacred relics.

It was listed as SS Tibet mission which would make sense in this context
in other words it would not a military unit as such at all.


You really need to skip basic SS history and read up on the occult
aspects of the Third Reich before opening your mouth. You probably
aren't even aware that the Nazi Party (NSDAP) originated from the
occult Thule/Vril Gesellschafts from way back to 1917. Before that
Thule came from the German Order (aka Order of Teutons) of 1912 and
was also known as the "Luminous Lodge"- directly connected to the
Illuminati.

I think we know of the Thule society here.

That's what makes all of this hard to deal with; the entire Third
Reich cannot be seperated from the occult, its symbolism, its mission,
and its plans for ultimate control over the planet.
Most people don't even recognize the swastika (Hakenkreuz) for what it
symbolizes- the black sun wheel that Thule and Vril worshipped. A dark
violet sun with dark powers. Vril is also the shortened version of
Vri-il "Like God". At the heart of all this is the worship of pure
evil.

Hitler had little interest in this sort of stuff.

Anyway, Base 211 is interesting to speculate on but no one could reach
it on land. Only a submarine could get there if the location was
known. I wonder if the US or USSR ever tried to find it in the trench?
The Germans probably mined the hell out of the area.

You cannot find what does not exist.



Rob


--
To make the economy go, some one has to work.

Observations of Bernard - No 45

Bernardz wrote in message news:MPG.1a9caa84d27558209898fd@news...


Vergeltungswaffen, just Vril-7. Meanwhile Thule came up with a more
advanced Triebwerk that utilized Coler's free energy machine, a Van
deGraf generator, a mercury sphere, and spherical levitators. This
engine was installed in the large Haunebu craft that flew the Atlantic
and made trips to an area Hitler knew would be safe from Allied
bombing, New Schwabenland in Antartica.

U-boats carried technicians and scientists to a base there, Number
211, via an undersea trench that stretched the entire way through what
was know formerly as Queen Maud Land. Base 211 was carved into a cave
complex similar to Nordhausen and supplied by transport subs,
components of which even the Type XXVI were taken. SS Antartic troops
maintained the base.



Never heard of a U-boat base being given a number. No Type XXVI was ever
built in the war. Work only started on it, late in the war so how is it
suppose to be available in 1939? Nor is SS Antartic listed in a
complete list of every SS-Divisionen formed during WWII.

Base 211 is often referenced as a code-name for the entire Antarctic
program and disc connection.

It is a very unusual German designation.

Try "Station 211", it was sometimes referred to as that.

And why WOULD a secret SS battalion be
listed among the combat divisions?

I did not just check combat divisions! I looked at all. I also looked at
the units that we have little references and that *may* have existed.
Nothing like it. By the way German military records are very good.

Generally so... except for those destroyed on purpose and of course
those captured by the Allies and compartmentalized by various
intelligence agencies.

Generally if it was an SS battalion it would be so designated eg
SS-Ausbildungs-Battalion or SS-Wirtschafts-Battalion but not always.



The SS E-IV technical branch is
barely known along with the Black Sun SS religious Order, the DHvSS,
and the SS archeological unit that went to South America and Tibet...
among other places searching for sacred relics.

It was listed as SS Tibet mission which would make sense in this context
in other words it would not a military unit as such at all.


You really need to skip basic SS history and read up on the occult
aspects of the Third Reich before opening your mouth. You probably
aren't even aware that the Nazi Party (NSDAP) originated from the
occult Thule/Vril Gesellschafts from way back to 1917. Before that
Thule came from the German Order (aka Order of Teutons) of 1912 and
was also known as the "Luminous Lodge"- directly connected to the
Illuminati.

I think we know of the Thule society here.

That's what makes all of this hard to deal with; the entire Third
Reich cannot be seperated from the occult, its symbolism, its mission,
and its plans for ultimate control over the planet.
Most people don't even recognize the swastika (Hakenkreuz) for what it
symbolizes- the black sun wheel that Thule and Vril worshipped. A dark
violet sun with dark powers. Vril is also the shortened version of
Vri-il "Like God". At the heart of all this is the worship of pure
evil.

Hitler had little interest in this sort of stuff.

Sorry to make you look absolutely stupid but Hitler and the senior
Nazi leadership were Thule members. Hitler believed in the "Hollow
Earth" theory, alien Aryans from Aldebaran, the Black Sun, etc... and
had his own psychics that guided his war-making decisions. You are
completely wrong there. The ultimate goal of Hitler and the Nazis was
to repopulate the earth with Aryan superhumans through eugenics and
rebuild Berlin into some form of Nazi occult mecca. BTW, Hitler DID
seize one occult object in 1938- the Spear of Destiny from Vienna. The
myth was that whomever was at power and possessed the Spear (that
pierced Christ's side) would rule the world. When US troops recovered
the Spear on April 30, 1945 Hitler comitted suicide within the hour.
It was Gen. Patton that restored the Spear to Vienna where it still
resides in a museum.

Anyway, Base 211 is interesting to speculate on but no one could reach
it on land. Only a submarine could get there if the location was
known. I wonder if the US or USSR ever tried to find it in the trench?
The Germans probably mined the hell out of the area.

You cannot find what does not exist.

Admirable Byrd sent a military task force to find it in 1947 (the first available antarctic summer) and ended up losing men and aircraft, being turned back after mere weeks when provision for fighting had been for 8 months.

Rob


Rob

From: (robert arndt)

Bernardz

I did not just check combat divisions! I looked at all. I also looked at
the units that we have little references and that *may* have existed.
Nothing like it. By the way German military records are very good.

Generally so... except for those destroyed on purpose and of course
those captured by the Allies and compartmentalized by various
intelligence agencies.

How inconvienient, no way to prove your assertions.

Most people don't even recognize the swastika (Hakenkreuz) for what it
symbolizes- the black sun wheel that Thule and Vril worshipped.

Most people are fully aware the swastika has been used by many people included
American Indians, Africans, the Romans etc.


Anyway, Base 211 is interesting to speculate on but no one could reach
it on land. Only a submarine could get there if the location was
known. I wonder if the US or USSR ever tried to find it in the trench?
The Germans probably mined the hell out of the area.

You cannot find what does not exist.


OK, so how was this "base" found in the first place? No submarine commander
would ever deliberately take his boat into an underwater cave so it couldn't be
from looking for it. Did space aliens come to Earth, decide the Nazis really
were the master race and show them where it was?

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

In message , robert
arndt writes

Snip

Anyway, Base 211 is interesting to speculate on but no one could reach
it on land. Only a submarine could get there if the location was
known. I wonder if the US or USSR ever tried to find it in the trench?
The Germans probably mined the hell out of the area.

I expect that it's long gone. The icebergs that break off Antarctica
will have taken any base with them.

Mike
--
M.J.Powell