Rogue IFR

"Kobra" wrote in message
...

Why would a "meat bomb" flight be announcing on an Approach frequency?
That's usually done on CTAF isn't it?


Not "announcing, "reporting". Part 105 requires a radio for jump operations
in controlled airspace, one of the required reports to ATC is notice of
jumpers away.

Don't they fly IFR in IMC without radar separation in the UK all the time?

Mike
MU-2


"Roger Long" om wrote in
message ...
I ran into an old client today and we stumbled on to the flying topic.
Turns out he got his PP a couple years ago and bought a plane.

He said with a completely straight face that he's thinking of getting an
instrument rating because he "flies in IMC a lot." He does OK but would
like to be able to ask ATC where the other planes are and fly into towered
airports.

Yikes! What are they teaching student pilots these days? I've asked here
before and seem to find myself asking myself that question a lot. You
can'
t teach common sense but the legality of what he's doing didn't even seem
to
be on his radar screen.

What does ATC do when they see a 1200 target boring through what they know
is solid IMC?

--
Roger Long

"Mike Rapoport" wrote:

Don't they fly IFR in IMC without radar separation in the UK all the time?

Glider pilots fly IMC (clouds) in the U.K without radar sep.
As I understand it each pilot broadcasts in the blind on the
designated freq. and says: "I'm [location] at [altitude]."
and they use either/both [altitude] or [location] for
separation.

Todd Pattist
(Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.)
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Make a commitment to learn something from every flight.
Share what you learn.

Don't they fly IFR in IMC without radar separation in the UK all the time?

We fily IFR in IMC here in the states all the time. We need to be in contact
with ATC, who clears out a section of airspace for us until we report the next
checkpoint, and clears out the next section ahead of us, all depending on our
position reports but coordinated on the ground. Radar is used in congested
areas (like the entire East coast) but it is not necessary for legal IFR in
IMC.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
k.net...
Don't they fly IFR in IMC without radar separation in the UK all the time?

Without *any* ATC separation, in uncontrolled (class G) airspace. Yes, we
do, though it's worth bearing in mind that it's usually only done when there
is no ATC service or advisory service available.

The issue with flight in IMC is supposedly that you can't see and avoid
other traffic. The converse assumption that underpins the concept of class
E airspace is that in VMC you *will* see and avoid other traffic, even
without help from ATC or TCAS. Success in that game has been shown by both
accident reports and scientific research to be very much less than perfect,
perhaps even less than 50%. Given that the density of uncontrolled traffic
in IMC is likely to be much lower than in VMC, the relative levels of risk
are not obvious.

Julian Scarfe

I'm approaching the completion of basic private pilot certificate but I
already know I want to go ahead and pursue an instrument rating. I've
found this discussion quite enlightening.

I do have a question: What would happen if this rogue pilot who is
flying VFR in solid IMC were to land at a towered airport such as we
have in Santa Fe? SAF has no radar but the controller is in front of the
windows and knows for certain what the weather is like around the airport.

If this pilot were to call in to request a landing would the controller
be obligated to report this? I know where to find the regs governing
pilots but don't think my AIM/FAR manual has the controller's regs.

Thanks,
david
--
Replace spam with david in the email address if you want to send email
to me personally.

Roger Long wrote:
I ran into an old client today and we stumbled on to the flying topic.
Turns out he got his PP a couple years ago and bought a plane.

He said with a completely straight face that he's thinking of getting an
instrument rating because he "flies in IMC a lot." He does OK but would
like to be able to ask ATC where the other planes are and fly into towered
airports.

Yikes! What are they teaching student pilots these days? I've asked here
before and seem to find myself asking myself that question a lot. You can'
t teach common sense but the legality of what he's doing didn't even seem to
be on his radar screen.

What does ATC do when they see a 1200 target boring through what they know
is solid IMC?

--
Roger Long

David Gunter writes:

If this pilot were to call in to request a landing would the
controller be obligated to report this? I know where to find the
regs governing pilots but don't think my AIM/FAR manual has the
controller's regs.

I think that they'd simply deny the VFR aircraft clearance to enter
the control zone.


All the best,


David

"David Megginson" wrote in message
...
David Gunter writes:

If this pilot were to call in to request a landing would the
controller be obligated to report this? I know where to find the
regs governing pilots but don't think my AIM/FAR manual has the
controller's regs.

I think that they'd simply deny the VFR aircraft clearance to enter
the control zone.

I think that a controller would be very reluctant to deny an SVFR clearance
into the zone. (Unless the weather at the field was below IFR minimums.)
Maybe a controller here can comment.

le moo

"Happy Dog" writes:

I think that they'd simply deny the VFR aircraft clearance to enter
the control zone.

I think that a controller would be very reluctant to deny an SVFR
clearance into the zone. (Unless the weather at the field was below
IFR minimums.) Maybe a controller here can comment.

That's what I had understood as the original question -- what would
happen when the rouge IFR tried to land at a towered airport in IMC.


All the best,


David

David Megginson wrote:



That's what I had understood as the original question -- what would
happen when the rouge IFR tried to land at a towered airport in IMC.

He wouldn't get a clearance.