OLC comment, MOP logging deactivated

Good day all, before the season start I downloaded the Flarm verion 6.83 and it installed ok.
We just started flying and my declaration is in light grey as the OLC system decla Autocomment: Used Aircraft is FES glider, but MOP logging deactivated.
I looked in my flarm info and the licences present in my flarm include " ENL ".

Any bodie know what this OLC comment refer to

Many Thanks in advance and fly safely

André Pepin Lak 17b fes 21m " DB "

On Thursday, May 21, 2020 at 9:26:44 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Good day all, before the season start I downloaded the Flarm verion 6.83 and it installed ok.
We just started flying and my declaration is in light grey as the OLC system decla Autocomment: Used Aircraft is FES glider, but MOP logging deactivated.
I looked in my flarm info and the licences present in my flarm include " ENL ".

Any bodie know what this OLC comment refer to

Many Thanks in advance and fly safely

André Pepin Lak 17b fes 21m " DB "

Hi André - did you do a FES run before T/O for the FLARM to 'see'?

Dan

On 5/21/20 7:26 PM, wrote:
Good day all, before the season start I downloaded the Flarm verion 6.83 and it installed ok.
We just started flying and my declaration is in light grey as the OLC system decla Autocomment: Used Aircraft is FES glider, but MOP logging deactivated.
I looked in my flarm info and the licences present in my flarm include " ENL ".

Any bodie know what this OLC comment refer to

Many Thanks in advance and fly safely

André Pepin Lak 17b fes 21m " DB "


Looking at your file on IGC Webview, it shows no significant ENL
readings, just a small amount of noise. Maybe your Flarm isn't picking
up the frequencies generated by your motor, or mmaybe the hardware is
broken?

Hmm I can clearly see an engine noise run at about 2 hrs into the flight near Williamsburg. I used Seeyou desktop.

Also from OLC FAQs.
1.18 FES aircraft with invalid logger recording, what can I do?
- For aircraft with a too low noise level, for example all aircraft with front electric sustainer (FES), the MOP level must also be recorded.
- Only the MOP2 sensor from LXNAV is approved by the OLC.

At 03:48 22 May 2020, kinsell wrote:
On 5/21/20 7:26 PM, wrote:
Good day all, before the season start I downloaded the Flarm verion
6.83
and it installed ok.
We just started flying and my declaration is in light grey as the OLC
system decla Autocomment: Used Aircraft is FES glider, but MOP
logging
deactivated.
I looked in my flarm info and the licences present in my flarm include
"
ENL ".

Any bodie know what this OLC comment refer to

Many Thanks in advance and fly safely

André Pepin Lak 17b fes 21m " DB "


Looking at your file on IGC Webview, it shows no significant ENL
readings, just a small amount of noise. Maybe your Flarm isn't picking
up the frequencies generated by your motor, or mmaybe the hardware is
broken?

MOP and ENL are not the same thing. MOP is provided by an external sensor.

For FES, it is a current tranformer over the supply wire to the motor, for
a Jet it is a suitably filtered noise sensor filtered for jet noise, placed
close to the jet pipe.

To expand upon Tim's note:

ENL = Engine Noise Level
MOP = Means of Propulsion

IGC does not allow ENL to be used for electric or Jet engines, they must use MOP sensors.

ENL may be used for gas powered engines. This is not a new change for the IGC, but I think the OLC has just implemented the change in their software.

Many FES owners have been using ENL for years, but it is my understanding that this is no longer allowed by IGC as sufficient proof the FES was not used.

At 19:23 22 May 2020, Dave Springford wrote:
To expand upon Tim's note:

ENL = Engine Noise Level
MOP = Means of Propulsion

IGC does not allow ENL to be used for electric or Jet engines, they must
use MOP sensors.

ENL may be used for gas powered engines. This is not a new change for
the
IGC, but I think the OLC has just implemented the change in their
software.

Many FES owners have been using ENL for years, but it is my understanding
that this is no longer allowed by IGC as sufficient proof the FES was not
used.

It gets better! The LX MOP2 sensor can only be used with specified LXV
Flight Recorders.

At 19:23 22 May 2020, Dave Springford wrote:
To expand upon Tim's note:

ENL = Engine Noise Level
MOP = Means of Propulsion

IGC does not allow ENL to be used for electric or Jet engines, they must
use MOP sensors.

ENL may be used for gas powered engines. This is not a new change for
the
IGC, but I think the OLC has just implemented the change in their
software.

Many FES owners have been using ENL for years, but it is my understanding
that this is no longer allowed by IGC as sufficient proof the FES was not
used.

Dave,

Can you point to a current reference for IGC only allowing MOP sensors for
FES please.

SC3C says:
11.2ENL figures –engine on
An ENL of over 700 is expected when the engine is running at climb power.
Over 900 is typical for a two-stroke engine, and over 700 for a
nose mounted 4-stroke. Values of 999 have been recorded with a
two-stroke engine runningat full power, and over 900 for a Forward Electric
System (FES) with the FR close behind it. These high ENLs are
produced for a significant time during a climb and can therefore be
attributed to engine running.

SC3B says:
1.4.2EngineRecordingSystems - General.
Enginerecording is by IGCENL and MOP systems that are designed to
differentiate between conditions of forward thrust from the engine system,
and gliding flight without the use of engine. The low frequency IGC
Environmental Noise Level (ENL) system uses a sensor inside the FR and is
most sensitive to acoustic noise between100and 200Hz. It was originally
designed to record the operation of two-strokepistonengines, but may also
record reasonable ENL numbers with Forward Electric Systems (FES) if the FR
is installed just behind the engine and its retractible propeller (subject
to testing to show this). Where the ENL system does not produce high
enough readings with certain types of engine an d FR installations, either
the FR location must be changed or an additional sensor under the MOP code
must be fitted so that three high MOP numbers are produced in each IGC file
fix line in addition to ENL. Difficult cases for Engine recording are in
1.4.2.2- 1.4.2.5 below, and more detailis in SC3Annex C (SC3C) Chapter 11,
and Chapter 5 of the FR Specification.

Which seems to be saying "Fit a MOP Sensor where ENL is not Satisfactory"
it does not seem to be mandating it in all cases.

On 5/23/20 8:29 AM, Tim Newport-Peace wrote:
At 19:23 22 May 2020, Dave Springford wrote:
To expand upon Tim's note:

ENL = Engine Noise Level
MOP = Means of Propulsion

IGC does not allow ENL to be used for electric or Jet engines, they must
use MOP sensors.

ENL may be used for gas powered engines. This is not a new change for
the
IGC, but I think the OLC has just implemented the change in their
software.

Many FES owners have been using ENL for years, but it is my understanding
that this is no longer allowed by IGC as sufficient proof the FES was not
used.

Dave,

Can you point to a current reference for IGC only allowing MOP sensors for
FES please.

SC3C says:
11.2ENL figures –engine on
An ENL of over 700 is expected when the engine is running at climb power.
Over 900 is typical for a two-stroke engine, and over 700 for a
nose mounted 4-stroke. Values of 999 have been recorded with a
two-stroke engine runningat full power, and over 900 for a Forward Electric
System (FES) with the FR close behind it. These high ENLs are
produced for a significant time during a climb and can therefore be
attributed to engine running.

SC3B says:
1.4.2EngineRecordingSystems - General.
Enginerecording is by IGCENL and MOP systems that are designed to
differentiate between conditions of forward thrust from the engine system,
and gliding flight without the use of engine. The low frequency IGC
Environmental Noise Level (ENL) system uses a sensor inside the FR and is
most sensitive to acoustic noise between100and 200Hz. It was originally
designed to record the operation of two-strokepistonengines, but may also
record reasonable ENL numbers with Forward Electric Systems (FES) if the FR
is installed just behind the engine and its retractible propeller (subject
to testing to show this). Where the ENL system does not produce high
enough readings with certain types of engine an d FR installations, either
the FR location must be changed or an additional sensor under the MOP code
must be fitted so that three high MOP numbers are produced in each IGC file
fix line in addition to ENL. Difficult cases for Engine recording are in
1.4.2.2- 1.4.2.5 below, and more detailis in SC3Annex C (SC3C) Chapter 11,
and Chapter 5 of the FR Specification.

Which seems to be saying "Fit a MOP Sensor where ENL is not Satisfactory"
it does not seem to be mandating it in all cases.




Current OLC rules, dated Feb 23, say this:


" Flights, which are performed with motorized gliders, have to be
documented with a recording of the motor's operating time (ENL)..

For aircraft with too low noise level, for example all aircraft with a
front electric sustainer (FES), the MOP level must be recorded in
addition to above."


I just looked at a self-launching twin jet glider, its ENL values during
the launch were only about 100. Wonder if OLC is going to be enforcing
MOP for jets also?

OLC is now requiring you buy a MOP sensor for electric gliders where previously an ENL sensor was allowed - this is despite, as I understand it, ENL sensors picking up the FES just fine, and being allowed in world competitions.

On Friday, May 22, 2020 at 3:26:44 AM UTC+2, wrote:
Good day all, before the season start I downloaded the Flarm verion 6.83 and it installed ok.
We just started flying and my declaration is in light grey as the OLC system decla Autocomment: Used Aircraft is FES glider, but MOP logging deactivated.
I looked in my flarm info and the licences present in my flarm include " ENL ".

Any bodie know what this OLC comment refer to

Many Thanks in advance and fly safely

André Pepin Lak 17b fes 21m " DB "