A Random Comment

Just got around to reviewing all the comments under "Simulators". I guess it
was inevitable that it ended up as disagreements with MX. While I don't want
to get involved with that dead end, I have had an experience that kind of
parallels.

As I mentioned before, after I lost my medical, I tried to stay close to
aviation (to no avail) by trying radio control and simulation. During my
brief sojurn in radio control, I joined a "flying" club that was quite
active. But more than a few radiologists, when they found out that I was a
licensed pilot, kinda sulled up - not actually defensive - just avoided me
as much as possible. I think they all wanted to be pilots, but for some
reason - finances (althought some of those models were more expensive than
some of our early planes), the wife, inertia, etc. I think the final straw
for me when I saw a picture in one of their magazines showing a modeler with
helmet, goggles and scarf, landing a model biplane.

I think this kinda helps explain MX.

"birdog" wrote in message
...
Just got around to reviewing all the comments under "Simulators". I guess
it was inevitable that it ended up as disagreements with MX. While I don't
want to get involved with that dead end, I have had an experience that
kind of parallels.

As I mentioned before, after I lost my medical, I tried to stay close to
aviation (to no avail) by trying radio control and simulation. During my
brief sojurn in radio control, I joined a "flying" club that was quite
active. But more than a few radiologists, when they found out that I was a
licensed pilot, kinda sulled up - not actually defensive - just avoided me
as much as possible. I think they all wanted to be pilots, but for some
reason - finances (althought some of those models were more expensive than
some of our early planes), the wife, inertia, etc. I think the final straw
for me when I saw a picture in one of their magazines showing a modeler
with helmet, goggles and scarf, landing a model biplane.

I think this kinda helps explain MX.

I forgot to mention something that might be of interest. Learning to fly
these RC toys is about as hard as the real thing, and my piloting experience
helped me not one wit. Unless you want to tear up your expensive little
model, everyone gets help from an experienced modeler.
Duel lasts only long enough to be sure you can hit the runway, and not take
some by standers head off.

Is there an RC modeler out there who would like to challange MX on reality?
That might be interesting!

"birdog" wrote:
As I mentioned before, after I lost my medical, I tried to stay close
to aviation (to no avail) by trying radio control and simulation.
During my brief sojurn in radio control, I joined a "flying" club that
was quite active. But more than a few radiologists, when they found
out that I was a licensed pilot, kinda sulled up - not actually
defensive - just avoided me as much as possible. I think they all
wanted to be pilots, but for some reason - finances (althought some of
those models were more expensive than some of our early planes), the
wife, inertia, etc. I think the final straw for me when I saw a
picture in one of their magazines showing a modeler with helmet,
goggles and scarf, landing a model biplane.

Interesting - I'd be curious to know what you think would transpire if you
tried posting the above paragraph to rec.models.rc.air.

It appears you formed a sweeping generalization of a whole class of people
based on a few subjective conclusions on your part. Any reason why you
ruled out the possibility that they avoided you was because you might have
been exhibiting a haughty or condescending attitude? In other words, if one
person avoids you, lacking anything other than speculation, it is equal
probability the fault lies with them or you. But when a whole group of
people avoids you, what do you think the probability is that a group having
only one thing in common would all be at fault for that behavior, but not
you?

"birdog" wrote in message
...
Learning to fly these RC toys is about as hard as the real thing, and my
piloting experience helped me not one wit.

In the soaring world, I know of at least two cases where previous RC experience
seemed to transfer very well to the "real thing". Not so much in the actual
mechanics of learning how to solo, but in learning how to stay up and go
somewhere once solo in achieved.

Vaughn

On Sat, 22 May 2010 12:15:24 -0400, birdog wrote:

Just got around to reviewing all the comments under "Simulators". I guess it
was inevitable that it ended up as disagreements with MX. While I don't want
to get involved with that dead end, I have had an experience that kind of
parallels.

As I mentioned before, after I lost my medical, I tried to stay close to
aviation (to no avail) by trying radio control and simulation. During my
brief sojurn in radio control, I joined a "flying" club that was quite
active. But more than a few radiologists, when they found out that I was a
licensed pilot, kinda sulled up - not actually defensive - just avoided me
as much as possible. I think they all wanted to be pilots, but for some
reason - finances (althought some of those models were more expensive than
some of our early planes), the wife, inertia, etc. I think the final straw
for me when I saw a picture in one of their magazines showing a modeler with
helmet, goggles and scarf, landing a model biplane.

I think this kinda helps explain MX.

No, MX is a highly functional troll with a long history outside of
RAP. Whether he wears a helmet, goggles and scarf, landing a model
biplane, I don't know.
--
A fireside chat not with Ari!
http://tr.im/holj
Motto: Live To Spooge It!

On May 23, 7:42*am, "vaughn" wrote:

In the soaring world, I know of at least two cases where previous RC experience
seemed to transfer very well to the "real thing". *Not so much in the actual
mechanics of learning how to solo, but in *learning how to stay up and go
somewhere once solo in achieved.

Mate of mine is a 10,000 hour plus ag pilot. His hobby is radio
controlled model aircraft.

Says the models are harder to fly than his Cresco

"Jim Logajan" wrote in message
.. .
"birdog" wrote:
As I mentioned before, after I lost my medical, I tried to stay close
to aviation (to no avail) by trying radio control and simulation.
During my brief sojurn in radio control, I joined a "flying" club that
was quite active. But more than a few radiologists, when they found
out that I was a licensed pilot, kinda sulled up - not actually
defensive - just avoided me as much as possible. I think they all
wanted to be pilots, but for some reason - finances (althought some of
those models were more expensive than some of our early planes), the
wife, inertia, etc. I think the final straw for me when I saw a
picture in one of their magazines showing a modeler with helmet,
goggles and scarf, landing a model biplane.

Interesting - I'd be curious to know what you think would transpire if you
tried posting the above paragraph to rec.models.rc.air.

It appears you formed a sweeping generalization of a whole class of people
based on a few subjective conclusions on your part. Any reason why you
ruled out the possibility that they avoided you was because you might have
been exhibiting a haughty or condescending attitude? In other words, if
one
person avoids you, lacking anything other than speculation, it is equal
probability the fault lies with them or you. But when a whole group of
people avoids you, what do you think the probability is that a group
having
only one thing in common would all be at fault for that behavior, but not
you?

Did I say the whole group? Did I say all? Why are you being defensive? While
I may be an obnoxious *******, I did make a few friends at the time, some
with whom I still communicate.

On May 22, 12:15*pm, "birdog" wrote:
Just got around to reviewing all the comments under "Simulators". I guess it
was inevitable that it ended up as disagreements with MX. While I don't want
to get involved with that dead end, I have had an experience that kind of
parallels.

As I mentioned before, after I lost my medical, I tried to stay close to
aviation (to no avail) by trying radio control and simulation. During my
brief sojurn in radio control, I joined a "flying" club that was quite
active. But more than a few radiologists, when they found out that I was a
licensed pilot, kinda sulled up - not actually defensive - just avoided me
as much as possible. I think they all wanted to be pilots, but for some
reason - finances (althought some of those models were more expensive than
some of our early planes), the wife, inertia, etc. I think the final straw
for me when I saw a picture in one of their magazines showing a modeler with
helmet, goggles and scarf, landing a model biplane.

I think this kinda helps explain MX.

There's a difference between simulate and stimulate: I choose M20J
over MSFS for stimulation of the aviation variety. Some pilots use
desk or laptop computer based simulators to improve a subset of their
skills, some non-pilots use them for other purposes, but you can't
commit aviation on a desk top simulator -- that is a fantasy world.
The confusion and argument here has to do with the difference between
subset skill improvement (unusual attitude recovery decoupled from
sensory input comes to mind, although aviators, not desktop simulated
aviators, understand overcoming sensory inputs is a large part of
unusual attitude recovery in the clouds) as opposed to gaming a
flight.

One area that would probably be useful is to simulate entering and
executing holding patterns with differing winds-- do the math in your
head, cross the fix within a few seconds of the 'expect further
clearance' time. Many of us might benefit from doing that for an hour
or two. Ditto NDB approaches with random winds. It saves the time and
cost of flying a real airplane, and I guess you can start out a few
miles from the marker time after time, without negotiating with
approach.

Of course I can't remember the last time I was given a "hold, expect
further clearance at" and the real world PITA about NDBs isn't the
flying of them -- it's the friggin communication -- little airports
in valleys, no line of sight to the center's antenna.

I don't buy into the idea of simulated approaches into new airports as
especially useful: There's very little difference from decision height
to the threshold on the ILSs I use.and a glance at the airport diagram
tells me how far from the threshold I should plan on touching down to
make the turn-off to the FBO I want to use. The most important part
of an approach, especially in the clouds, is formally brief yourself
(it helps if there are PX, you can brief them too) on what you're
going to do, especially if it's to near minimums, what to look for,
what will happen if you don't see the airport, that sort of thing. I
instruct the person in the right seat to say "You are visual" if (s)he
clearly sees the airport when we are well above minimums. I try very
hard not to peek until well within the reported ceiling/visibility, an
extra pair of eyes tends to make transition from instruments to visual
and then back again to instruments not as likely (although it's not a
big deal, is it?)

"birdog" wrote:
"Jim Logajan" wrote in message
.. .
"birdog" wrote:
As I mentioned before, after I lost my medical, I tried to stay
close to aviation (to no avail) by trying radio control and
simulation. During my brief sojurn in radio control, I joined a
"flying" club that was quite active. But more than a few
radiologists, when they found out that I was a licensed pilot, kinda
sulled up - not actually defensive - just avoided me as much as
possible. I think they all wanted to be pilots, but for some reason
- finances (althought some of those models were more expensive than
some of our early planes), the wife, inertia, etc. I think the final
straw for me when I saw a picture in one of their magazines showing
a modeler with helmet, goggles and scarf, landing a model biplane.

Interesting - I'd be curious to know what you think would transpire
if you tried posting the above paragraph to rec.models.rc.air.

It appears you formed a sweeping generalization of a whole class of
people based on a few subjective conclusions on your part. Any reason
why you ruled out the possibility that they avoided you was because
you might have been exhibiting a haughty or condescending attitude?
In other words, if one
person avoids you, lacking anything other than speculation, it is
equal probability the fault lies with them or you. But when a whole
group of people avoids you, what do you think the probability is that
a group having
only one thing in common would all be at fault for that behavior, but
not you?

Did I say the whole group? Did I say all?

You wrote "I think they all wanted to be pilots," and while the context
is arguably ambiguous about who you meant to include in the "all" group,
it looked to me like you were dismissive of all.

But then I read your other post (which I didn't see till after I'd sent
mine) that indicated you had considerable respect for the skills needed
for their hobby.

Why are you being defensive?

I want to make sure no one disrepects me should I someday decide to wear
a kilt while flying an RC model of a DC-3 with Scottish Airline markings.
;-)

However, I only ever tried - and failed - to fly an RC model airplane
once about 40 years ago. I'm lucky to get an HO scale model train around
a closed track without derailing it. (It never helped our cause, while I
was a kid, that what few plastic model planes my brothers and I did get
and build that they'd eventually find a lit cherry bomb in or attached to
them as their last rites.)

I just thought your post, had it appeared in an RC group, was uncannily
like the kind of post that, ahem, "endeared" Mxsmanic to so many people
on this group. Well, it does require the right kind of personality types
on both sides for an unending ping-pong "discussion."

While I may be an obnoxious *******,

You have many peers in this newsgroup! :-) Still, no properly obnoxious
******* admits to being one, so if you aren't careful you'll be forced to
hand in your OB card. You're clearly a nice guy, but I'm willing to swear
on your behalf, should the case come up, that you were and are an OB.

I did make a few friends at the time, some with whom I still
communicate.

I'll pretend you never wrote that, considering your OB credentials are at
stake. :-)

"Jim Logajan" wrote in message
.. .
"birdog" wrote:
"Jim Logajan" wrote in message
.. .
"birdog" wrote:
As I mentioned before, after I lost my medical, I tried to stay
close to aviation (to no avail) by trying radio control and
simulation. During my brief sojurn in radio control, I joined a
"flying" club that was quite active. But more than a few
radiologists, when they found out that I was a licensed pilot, kinda
sulled up - not actually defensive - just avoided me as much as
possible. I think they all wanted to be pilots, but for some reason
- finances (althought some of those models were more expensive than
some of our early planes), the wife, inertia, etc. I think the final
straw for me when I saw a picture in one of their magazines showing
a modeler with helmet, goggles and scarf, landing a model biplane.

Interesting - I'd be curious to know what you think would transpire
if you tried posting the above paragraph to rec.models.rc.air.

It appears you formed a sweeping generalization of a whole class of
people based on a few subjective conclusions on your part. Any reason
why you ruled out the possibility that they avoided you was because
you might have been exhibiting a haughty or condescending attitude?
In other words, if one
person avoids you, lacking anything other than speculation, it is
equal probability the fault lies with them or you. But when a whole
group of people avoids you, what do you think the probability is that
a group having
only one thing in common would all be at fault for that behavior, but
not you?

Did I say the whole group? Did I say all?

You wrote "I think they all wanted to be pilots," and while the context
is arguably ambiguous about who you meant to include in the "all" group,
it looked to me like you were dismissive of all.

But then I read your other post (which I didn't see till after I'd sent
mine) that indicated you had considerable respect for the skills needed
for their hobby.

Why are you being defensive?

I want to make sure no one disrepects me should I someday decide to wear
a kilt while flying an RC model of a DC-3 with Scottish Airline markings.
;-)

However, I only ever tried - and failed - to fly an RC model airplane
once about 40 years ago. I'm lucky to get an HO scale model train around
a closed track without derailing it. (It never helped our cause, while I
was a kid, that what few plastic model planes my brothers and I did get
and build that they'd eventually find a lit cherry bomb in or attached to
them as their last rites.)

I just thought your post, had it appeared in an RC group, was uncannily
like the kind of post that, ahem, "endeared" Mxsmanic to so many people
on this group. Well, it does require the right kind of personality types
on both sides for an unending ping-pong "discussion."

While I may be an obnoxious *******,

You have many peers in this newsgroup! :-) Still, no properly obnoxious
******* admits to being one, so if you aren't careful you'll be forced to
hand in your OB card. You're clearly a nice guy, but I'm willing to swear
on your behalf, should the case come up, that you were and are an OB.

I did make a few friends at the time, some with whom I still
communicate.

I'll pretend you never wrote that, considering your OB credentials are at
stake. :-)

Thank you for your endorcement my OB status. Everyone needs all the
support they can get.

Jim - when I first came on this NG not long ago, there seemed to be very
little on here pertaining to pilotage, etc. A couple of posts I put on here
generated comments, although the last one degenerated into a spitting
contest with MX - i.e. right back to my (personal) objection to start with.
My original post on this thread was intended as a feeble attempt to maybe
generate a discussion. It was in no way intended to denigrate anyone or
their hobby.

When I said that everyone in the RC club probably had a yen to fly the real
thing, those folks obviously have an intense interest in aviation - which
was the reason I got involved in the first place. I guess my point was that
there is no acceptable - for me at least - substitute for the real thing.

Amazingly, when I look back on years of flying, there really isn't many
incidents in my personal experience
that would be of interest to other pilots. Sure, I had a lot of
white-knuckle experiences, as any pilot has. I can't recall any instance
where I felt that I was in mortal danger.

Can I get some help here? Let's talk PILOTAGE!