Busted IFR Checkride

Thanks for the kind words Cecil... I'm really over the being bummed out
part.... Hell that didn't even last 24 hours... I am anticipating
passing the retest on Wednesday and will let everyone know.. Thanks
again...

Cecil Chapman wrote:

Well, Jon, it's clear to me that you must have done a LOT of things right
for the ride, since the holding pattern was the only thing that nipped you.
I know ya feel disappointed and there's not much to say, other than to point
out that you took what most of the instructors I've spoken to, is one of the
hardest rides. I swear I'll never understand why it's only an 'add-on'
rating to the Private (so-to-speak) when it seems that it should be a
complete 'ticket' in itself.

Adding the final touches to your holding pattern technique, should be a lot
easier, now that you can devote your time with your instructor just working
on holding patterns (i.e., since you passed all the rest, there will be no
need to practice them again for the follow-up checkride).

If I don't pass my Instrument checkride the first time, I hope I can do as
well as you did - that is, do well on everything except one small item.

Really, man,,, in the scheme of things you did REALLY good and you'll be on
'easy street' on your next ride 'cause you'll only have one thing to do and
you'll do it well!

Well, Jon, it's clear to me that you must have done a LOT of things right
for the ride, since the holding pattern was the only thing that nipped
you...

Adding the final touches to your holding pattern technique, should be a lot
easier, now that you can devote your time with your instructor just working
on holding patterns (i.e., since you passed all the rest, there will be no
need to practice them again for the follow-up checkride).

First of all, I don't mean to be critical of Jon, his instructor, or others
who have posted on this thread. However, I don't necessarily agree with the
recommendation to just brush up on holds and then take the checkride again.
When I was a new CFI working at a Part 141 school, I had an instrument student
who was a nice guy and serious pilot, but had a little more trouble than most
getting all the IFR stuff together. Eventually, we completed the syllabus.
On his final stage check, he messed up the NDB approach but was OK on
everything else. We reviewed the ADF, he redid the NDB part of the stage
check and passed, and I signed him off for the check ride, which he then
failed for something unrelated to ADF. At that point, I realized that when
he blew the NDB approach, it wasn't a problem with the ADF, but a general
problem with situational awareness and keeping on top of things. After quite
a bit more instruction, he eventually passed.

Based on this experience, I caution Jon to make sure that his bad holding
pattern is not a symptom of other, more general problems. Remember that the
checkride is not comprehensive, but just a spot check; the fact that many
things went well doesn't prove that everything is OK. If Jon's CFII is an
experienced instrument instructor and has a lot of instrument rating
endorsements under his belt, then he will probably know if Jon's problem on
the checkride was just a glitch. In this case, it might be OK to just review
holds, and then complete the checkride. However, if the CFII has little
experience, or if he is experienced and not completely confident in Jon's
proficiency level, then I suggest spending at least several hours reviewing
all elements of the PTS, possibly with a more experienced instructor. Sure,
at this point you mainly want to get the checkride behind you, but make sure
that you're not ignoring a warning that the holding pattern might be giving
you.

Good luck.

Barry

I caution Jon to make sure that his bad holding pattern is not a
symptom of other, more general problems. Remember that the checkride
is not comprehensive, but just a spot check; the fact that many things
went well doesn't prove that everything is OK.

Very wise advice.

But that assumes that the goal of the student and instructor is
something different from just passing a checkride. ;-)

My CFII is the chief flight instructor at our school and has many years
experience instructing... He knows I am ready for the checkride or he
wouldn't have signed me off... He knows that I just screwed up and
that is all... Basically I wanted to write my account of the busted
checkride to let people know that is isn't the end of the world... Far
from it... Just another learing experience... No more no less... Funny,
I lost not one minutes sleep over it last night :-) Thanks for the
advise... JK

Barry wrote:

Well, Jon, it's clear to me that you must have done a LOT of things right
for the ride, since the holding pattern was the only thing that nipped
you...

Adding the final touches to your holding pattern technique, should be a lot
easier, now that you can devote your time with your instructor just working
on holding patterns (i.e., since you passed all the rest, there will be no
need to practice them again for the follow-up checkride).



First of all, I don't mean to be critical of Jon, his instructor, or others
who have posted on this thread. However, I don't necessarily agree with the
recommendation to just brush up on holds and then take the checkride again.
When I was a new CFI working at a Part 141 school, I had an instrument student
who was a nice guy and serious pilot, but had a little more trouble than most
getting all the IFR stuff together. Eventually, we completed the syllabus.
On his final stage check, he messed up the NDB approach but was OK on
everything else. We reviewed the ADF, he redid the NDB part of the stage
check and passed, and I signed him off for the check ride, which he then
failed for something unrelated to ADF. At that point, I realized that when
he blew the NDB approach, it wasn't a problem with the ADF, but a general
problem with situational awareness and keeping on top of things. After quite
a bit more instruction, he eventually passed.

Based on this experience, I caution Jon to make sure that his bad holding
pattern is not a symptom of other, more general problems. Remember that the
checkride is not comprehensive, but just a spot check; the fact that many
things went well doesn't prove that everything is OK. If Jon's CFII is an
experienced instrument instructor and has a lot of instrument rating
endorsements under his belt, then he will probably know if Jon's problem on
the checkride was just a glitch. In this case, it might be OK to just review
holds, and then complete the checkride. However, if the CFII has little
experience, or if he is experienced and not completely confident in Jon's
proficiency level, then I suggest spending at least several hours reviewing
all elements of the PTS, possibly with a more experienced instructor. Sure,
at this point you mainly want to get the checkride behind you, but make sure
that you're not ignoring a warning that the holding pattern might be giving
you.

Good luck.

Barry

Based on this experience, I caution Jon to make sure that his bad holding
pattern is not a symptom of other, more general problems. Remember that
the
checkride is not comprehensive, but just a spot check; the fact that many
things went well doesn't prove that everything is OK. If Jon's CFII is an
experienced instrument instructor and has a lot of instrument rating
endorsements under his belt, then he will probably know if Jon's problem
on
the checkride was just a glitch. In this case, it might be OK to just
review
holds, and then complete the checkride. However, if the CFII has little
experience, or if he is experienced and not completely confident in Jon's
proficiency level, then I suggest spending at least several hours
reviewing
all elements of the PTS, possibly with a more experienced instructor.
Sure,
at this point you mainly want to get the checkride behind you, but make
sure
that you're not ignoring a warning that the holding pattern might be
giving
you.

This is a VERY good point, though it would be more accurate to say that
performing a holding pattern truly involves a heightened level of
situational awareness - I think,,,, more so, than most of the instrument
flying skills.

Thankfully, though we are dealing with Jon and most of us know that he has
it all together and that he just 'brain faded' a bit when it got to the
holds. Actually, upon re-reading his account, he had to be exhausted
halfway through his checkride,,, I'd say there was even more pressure on him
than in a 'normal' checkride experience.

Good observation/point, though... very good!

--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL
Student-IASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -

As usual Cecil well stated ... :-) I sure don't know about "having it
all together" but it sure looks good on paper !!! My CFII was on
vacation this week so I called him to tell him of my gloom adn doom... I
could tell by his comments that he was just shaking his head and kinda
laughing knowing that I really can do this "flying thing"... I go up
with him on Monday and get rechecked on Wednesday... Thanks again Cecil
for the kind words.... Hopefully I won't have to be kind to you when you
take your test. :-) JK

Cecil Chapman wrote:

This is a VERY good point, though it would be more accurate to say that
performing a holding pattern truly involves a heightened level of
situational awareness - I think,,,, more so, than most of the instrument
flying skills.

Thankfully, though we are dealing with Jon and most of us know that he has
it all together and that he just 'brain faded' a bit when it got to the
holds. Actually, upon re-reading his account, he had to be exhausted
halfway through his checkride,,, I'd say there was even more pressure on him
than in a 'normal' checkride experience.

Good observation/point, though... very good!

Bummer Jon, sorry to hear that...but it sounds like you did the right thing
continuing the ride. Yep, in the long run, it's not going to matter. Hope
you nail the holds next time.

--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

Jon,

Busted rides occasionally happen, and from the numerous posts, it looks like
you're coping just fine. But if you need further cheering up, here's how my
instructor busted HIS ride:

He started off with the easy stuff, tracking to a VOR. However, he missed
the flag switching from TO to FROM, and just kept on tracking. Apparently,
it was a fairly calm day so that little course correction was necessary,
otherwise trying to keep the needle aligned may have clued him in
(eventually). Anyway, the DE let this go on for about 10 minutes or so
before suggesting they do a 180 rather than circle the globe on course. The
rest of the ride went off without a hitch.

blue skies,
mark


"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...
Took my IFR checkride today and busted... I screwed up the holding
pattern big time and that was that... At first I was so damn fustrated
that I told the DE that I just want to head back to the airport... Then
I thought to myself "what are you going to do there pout?" :-) I then
decided to go ahead with the rest of the ride and get it out of the way.
I did OK... not great but passable... This DE made it pretty easy on
me... He was telling me about his IFR checkride and him busting on his
first attempt too... He busted on the holding pattern too so I didn't
feel that bad.. He now has 14,000+ hours and doesn't worry about his
busted IFR checkride so I figured why should I... Now I just need to go
back up with my instructor once, do the freakn' holding pattern... Go
back up with the DE... do the freakn' holding pattern and be done...
More to follow...

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL
Student-IA Argggg...

Mark Astley wrote:

Anyway, the DE let this go on for about 10 minutes or so
before suggesting they do a 180 rather than circle the globe on course.
The rest of the ride went off without a hitch.

It sounds like a failing in the DE's instructions, if he wasn't clear enough
to indicate ahead of time that they shouldn't circumnavigate the globe.

- Andrew

Funny Mark.... my DE busted his IFR ride on the hold too... He said hold
wasn't even close to being racetrack shaped or anywhere near the
racetrack :-) Like others have said this doesn't mean anything in the
big picture.... Thanks again. JK

Mark Astley wrote:

Jon,

Busted rides occasionally happen, and from the numerous posts, it looks like
you're coping just fine. But if you need further cheering up, here's how my
instructor busted HIS ride:

He started off with the easy stuff, tracking to a VOR. However, he missed
the flag switching from TO to FROM, and just kept on tracking. Apparently,
it was a fairly calm day so that little course correction was necessary,
otherwise trying to keep the needle aligned may have clued him in
(eventually). Anyway, the DE let this go on for about 10 minutes or so
before suggesting they do a 180 rather than circle the globe on course. The
rest of the ride went off without a hitch.

blue skies,
mark


"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
.. .


Took my IFR checkride today and busted... I screwed up the holding
pattern big time and that was that... At first I was so damn fustrated
that I told the DE that I just want to head back to the airport... Then
I thought to myself "what are you going to do there pout?" :-) I then
decided to go ahead with the rest of the ride and get it out of the way.
I did OK... not great but passable... This DE made it pretty easy on
me... He was telling me about his IFR checkride and him busting on his
first attempt too... He busted on the holding pattern too so I didn't
feel that bad.. He now has 14,000+ hours and doesn't worry about his
busted IFR checkride so I figured why should I... Now I just need to go
back up with my instructor once, do the freakn' holding pattern... Go
back up with the DE... do the freakn' holding pattern and be done...
More to follow...

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL
Student-IA Argggg...