Airplane shot down in Colombia

In article ,
Dave S wrote:

PPL-A (Canada) wrote:


Don't you think that simply following this plane until it ran out of
fuel and had to land might have resulted in the arrest of far more
important people in the chain of drug distribution ...

And if the plane was about to cross a soverign border, where you could
not legally go forward to track them.. and the other country was not
willing nor equipped to track them, nor was willing to arrest and
extradite the crew of the plane... then how do you propose to track and
follow the plane?

The pilot knew what he was doing. He was making a run for the border,
and freedom. He gambled and lost.


One problem here (other than the moral problem of capital punishment for
suspicious behavior) is that the video did not establish whether or not
the plane was warned, or merely fired upon without warning.

Jay Honeck wrote:
The United States is signatory to treaties prohibiting firing upon
civilian aircraft, but regularly violates these treaties. This is
behavior that we used to associate with the worst aspects of the Soviet
Union and other rogue states.

Just curious: When has the US ever fired on civilian aircraft?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"



I kind of remember something about an Iranian Airbus......

"Flydive" wrote in message
...
Jay Honeck wrote:
The United States is signatory to treaties prohibiting firing upon
civilian aircraft, but regularly violates these treaties. This is
behavior that we used to associate with the worst aspects of the Soviet
Union and other rogue states.

Just curious: When has the US ever fired on civilian aircraft?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"



I kind of remember something about an Iranian Airbus......

That was violating several ICAO rules, IIRC.

Matt Barrow wrote:
"Flydive" wrote in message
...
Jay Honeck wrote:
The United States is signatory to treaties prohibiting firing upon
civilian aircraft, but regularly violates these treaties. This is
behavior that we used to associate with the worst aspects of the Soviet
Union and other rogue states.
Just curious: When has the US ever fired on civilian aircraft?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"


I kind of remember something about an Iranian Airbus......

That was violating several ICAO rules, IIRC.


So death penalty then? As the Corean 747, the Russian were right then?
And anyway it was a Civilian Aircraft and it was shot down by the US as
per question.

"Flydive" wrote in message
...
Jay Honeck wrote:
The United States is signatory to treaties prohibiting firing upon
civilian aircraft, but regularly violates these treaties. This is
behavior that we used to associate with the worst aspects of the Soviet
Union and other rogue states.

Just curious: When has the US ever fired on civilian aircraft?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"



I kind of remember something about an Iranian Airbus.

The Airbus incident was indeed tragic. But, the context was completely
different. The Airbus shoot-down was a horrible mistake involving its
mistaken identity as an immediate threat. This occurred in the vicinity of
ongoing hostilities. The shoot-down of the presumed drug runner was the
intentional stalking and shoot down of a civilian aircraft which posed no
immediate threat.

One question... Was the drug runner shoot-down during daylight hours? You
would think the intelligent drug runner would fly at night when
essentially day, VFR fighters wouldn't be effective.

KB

Kyle Boatright wrote:
"Flydive" wrote in message
...
Jay Honeck wrote:
The United States is signatory to treaties prohibiting firing upon
civilian aircraft, but regularly violates these treaties. This is
behavior that we used to associate with the worst aspects of the Soviet
Union and other rogue states.
Just curious: When has the US ever fired on civilian aircraft?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"


I kind of remember something about an Iranian Airbus.

The Airbus incident was indeed tragic. But, the context was completely
different. The Airbus shoot-down was a horrible mistake involving its
mistaken identity as an immediate threat. This occurred in the vicinity of
ongoing hostilities. The shoot-down of the presumed drug runner was the
intentional stalking and shoot down of a civilian aircraft which posed no
immediate threat.

I agree.
Also, maybe the initial part of the tape is missing, so were there
warnings before? And I did not see the normal intercept procedures as
per ICAO




One question... Was the drug runner shoot-down during daylight hours? You
would think the intelligent drug runner would fly at night when
essentially day, VFR fighters wouldn't be effective.

KB

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
ps.com...
The rules are wrong, therefore the blame lies in the law. If there was no
market there would be no 'value stream'...

So now it's the addict's fault that our inner cities are laced with
drugs and thugs? It's the user's fault that normal people dare not
set foot into the ghettos that exist in every major city in America?
All we have to do to fix this mess is "change the law"?

That may be the most naive thing I've ever seen written here -- and
*that* is not an easy cliff to scale!

If you had any experience in the inner cities of America, you would
know that drugs are the scrourge of EVERYTHING and EVERYONE there.
The "market" you speak of exists because of a drug cartel that
produces and provides cheap drugs for easy distribution to people who
apparently have nothing left to lose.


snip

Jay- you presuppose it is possible to eliminate the "drug cartels", yet
pretty much all the evidence shows that the harder you clamp down on
"cartels", the profit increases which provides more incentive for the cartel
to exist in the first place. I know we both have had family members with
"issues", and yes, I do blame the addicts. Will legalizing drugs cause an
increase in suffering short term? Yes. But the present course of action
will probably result in more suffering.

Flydive wrote:
I kind of remember something about an Iranian Airbus......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message ps.com...
The rules are wrong, therefore the blame lies in the law. If there was no market there would be no 'value stream'...

So now it's the addict's fault that our inner cities are laced with
drugs and thugs? It's the user's fault that normal people dare not
set foot into the ghettos that exist in every major city in America?
All we have to do to fix this mess is "change the law"?

That may be the most naive thing I've ever seen written here -- and
*that* is not an easy cliff to scale!



OK, so I suppose you think that prohibition was right. There should be no alcohol consumed by anyone in the USA. Hey,
wait, that is what brought Dillinger to fame, and some mega bucks to the Rockefellers...

Naive, huh?

I know we both have had family members with
"issues", and yes, I do blame the addicts.

To some degree I agree with you. However, once a drug abuser is past
a certain point, they are no longer operating of their own free
will. These are the people that the drug cartels breed and feed, and
it's disgusting and pathetic.

I understand the impulse to legalize this stuff, and it's easy to
compare it to alcohol Prohibition -- but I think we're talking about
an exponentially worse problem than beer and wine here.

Incidentally, IMHO marijuana (aside from the health aspects of
inhaling any tobacco products) is certainly a drug that should be
legalized, standardized, and controlled. However, with the strong
societal move toward outlawing ALL smoking, I don't see that EVER
happening now.

Cocaine, heroin, meth, crack -- all of these are far too damaging to
simply allow on the streets in "legal" doses. Anyone who has ever had
to deal with a person who is addicted to any of these substances knows
that we are dealing with a whole different set of problems than the
folks who drink a 12-pack of Pabst per day are facing...

I'm afraid that we, as a society, have little choice but to try to
stop illicit drug use. It's a real Catch-22, since one of mankind's
strongest (and oldest) urges is to alter reality.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"