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#51
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VFR Practise Approaches
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Hash: SHA1 Mxsmanic wrote: A Guy Called Tyketto writes: You miss the point again. ATC does *NOT* have to reply to you at all, despite all your calls for Class B clearance. If you do not hear from them, you're not getting into the Bravo at all. So you'd better get below it (assuming you can without passing through it), stay above it (assuming you can without passing through it), or go around it. Brad, I can only assume that you do not see the gaping holes in your reasoning, but I certainly do, and I'm sure I'm not alone. Apparently, you are alone, Anthony. So enlighten all of us. What are the gaping holes in my reasoning? Tell me how ATC not responding to your call gets you clearance into Class B, let alone in it to 'do whatever you want'. In short, put up, or shut up. I suggest you join the Internet Chess Club and "play" me there. I'm a very poor and indifferent chess player, and you could beat me easily (I'm at the bottom of the rankings). That would satisfy your desire to "beat" me, and your efforts would not be doomed to failure as they are here. Additionally, it would spare other people on this newsgroup your sophomoric attempts to demonstrate a superiority over me that you do not possess, and the group could return to intelligent discussion of aviation. I'm tired of indulging you here. You can always killfile me. But then again, I really do not care what you do. And if my throwing the .65T at you is a sophmoric attempt to be superior to you, then that would cause everyone here to assume that the FAA is doing the same thing, leading to the assumption that you are superior to the FAA. If Blakely were still in charge, then I would say that you *might* be right.. But she isn't, therefore you aren't. So killfile away. Become real tired of indulging me here. Do whatever you want with your life. But taking your toys and going home does nothing to argue your side of this discussion, and in fact shows your unwillingness to challenge something that is right and documented as such. Mais, c'est la vie, mon ami; c'est la vie. Comme E. R. Murrough dirait, "bonne nuite, et bonne chance." BL. - -- Brad Littlejohn | Email: Unix Systems Administrator, | Web + NewsMaster, BOFH.. Smeghead! | http://www.wizard.com/~tyketto PGP: 1024D/E319F0BF 6980 AAD6 7329 E9E6 D569 F620 C819 199A E319 F0BF -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFMqCeByBkZmuMZ8L8RAtoPAJ4vk++OtnHWPowLHO/GA2qM+RcT1gCgp08K Y6Me8fG/Z4/yKot0g34Y1FQ= =7pug -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
#52
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VFR Practise Approaches
On Oct 3, 1:49*am, A Guy Called Tyketto
What are the gaping holes in my reasoning? Tell me how ATC not responding to your call gets you clearance into Class B, let alone in it to 'do whatever you want'. Actually he had it right with getting the clearance in Bravo in his original post. He just has it flat out wrong on "do whatever you want absent ATC instruction" after that bravo entry clearance. Can you imagine if everybody did what they wanted in Bravo? I wouldn't. |
#53
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VFR Practise Approaches
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#54
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VFR Practise Approaches
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Hash: SHA1 Mxsmanic wrote: Suppose I want to transit a Class B under VFR to save time. All I have to do is call up ATC before entering the airspace, get a clearance, and go. You miss my point yet again, so I'll speel it out (yet again). You assume you GET the clearance. If ATC does not grant you your clearance into Class B, nor even responds to your call for Class B clearance, you will not get into Class B. ATC does *NOT* have to explicitly state that you remain outside of Class B airspace for you to remain outside of Class B airspace. 7-9-2.a does supply the phraseology used to keep you outside of Class Bravo airspace, but that doesn't mean that they must *answer your initial call*. If they don't get to answering your call, that would be just as much denial of entry into Class B as it would to hear "REMAIN OUTSIDE OF CLASS BRAVO AIRSPACE." My point the entire time is that ATC does not have to tell you to remain outside of it for you to remain outside of it. In other words, not responding to you at all is implicit denial of entry into Class B. What things can you NOT do in Class B in the absence of ATC restrictions that you would be able to do outside the Class B? Be sure to cite the regulation(s) that backs up your statement. Simple. Fly your plane. Regulations? 7-9-2.a. You did not get your Class Bravo clearance. AIM 3-2-3.e. You did not get your Class Bravo clearance. I am not saying that ATC won't ALWAYS tell you to remain outside of Class B, but that with the way the .65T is worded, they DON'T always have to tell you that, either. If you don't hear the magic words, you don't get in. If you hear "remain outside of Class Bravo airspace", or don't hear anything from them at all, you don't get in. BL. - -- Brad Littlejohn | Email: Unix Systems Administrator, | Web + NewsMaster, BOFH.. Smeghead! | http://www.wizard.com/~tyketto PGP: 1024D/E319F0BF 6980 AAD6 7329 E9E6 D569 F620 C819 199A E319 F0BF -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFMqM1xyBkZmuMZ8L8RAhcKAJ9mqZWhbKPMSDh6hrtkVn EjCizA8ACbBss3 xlhsNEYdwXw+dc0+0VTaetM= =lbL1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
#55
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VFR Practise Approaches
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#56
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VFR Practise Approaches
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Hash: SHA1 Forgot to mention something here. My point, Anthony, is that you go into this with the assumption that you will hear a response back from ATC. If you don't hear a response back from ATC at all, that is just as much crucial to your denial of Class B entry as hearing the words "remain outside of Class Bravo airspace." In short, don't assume that you will hear anything back, because if you don't, your Class B plans are shot. BL. - -- Brad Littlejohn | Email: Unix Systems Administrator, | Web + NewsMaster, BOFH.. Smeghead! | http://www.wizard.com/~tyketto PGP: 1024D/E319F0BF 6980 AAD6 7329 E9E6 D569 F620 C819 199A E319 F0BF -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFMqM44yBkZmuMZ8L8RAoknAJ0VnqPVIEseORb/GqzBpZkJ2rS94gCggUsL o8F6rWtabR2u7kENe/WphJc= =qEnH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
#57
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VFR Practise Approaches
On Oct 3, 12:22*pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
of flight. I don't need ATC's approval, B. WRONG. But that's ok, I'm not the delusional one here. I fly the real world...... and gave very specific situations and there are no particular restrictions on what I may do that I wouldn't already have outside the Class You CONTINUE TO PRETEND that you fly in the real world and lie about your real world experiences by NOT ANSWERING MY DIRECT QUESTIONS. |
#58
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VFR Practise Approaches
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#59
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VFR Practise Approaches
On Oct 3, 2:57*pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
writes: WRONG. Cite the supporting FAR. NO! LET ME ASK YOU AGAIN, HOW MANY HOURS HAVE YOU SPENT IN BRAVO AS PIC IN A REAL PLANE????????? |
#60
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VFR Practise Approaches
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