Stalls??

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
(Jay Masino) wrote in
:

Ol Shy & Bashful wrote:
Why is it so many pilots are afraid of stalls? I see it over an over
when doing flight reviews and checks. Why are pilots so afraid of
flying in the low end of the speed envelope? Isn't that where the
nasty things can happen? Isn't that where a pilot should be
comfortable and competent?
What do you think?

For me, there's no question that it's related to my lingering fear of
heights... even after 21 years of flying. I'll do stalls with no
problems when I'm doing my BFR... I even did spin training when I was
a student, but I can't get passed the sensation that the aircraft is
hardly moving forward. It makes me accutely aware of how high in the
air I am. Having said that, it's never caused much of a problem.
I'm probably the best lander at our airport. I regularly slip all the
way to the ground. I think I'm a fairly precise flyer. I did well on
my Instrument rating. I did well when I did my taildragger
transition (in a Luscombe). I know how to fly the aircraft with
precision in the pattern and avoid a stall close to the ground. I
don't think there has to be a correlation between comfort doing
stalls, and being a good pilot.

If you're flying a Luscombe and afraid of stalls, please stop flying it.
Far too many have been wrecked already.


Actually, I found the stalls in our Luscombe fairly easy. That's not
the point I was trying to make. The point is that my lingering fear of
heights make it... lets say "uncomfortable" to do stalls, so I try my
best to avoid them.



--

Jay Masino "Home is where My critters are"
http://www.JayMasino.com
http://www.OceanCityAirport.com
http://www.oc-Adolfos.com

(Jay Masino) wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
(Jay Masino) wrote in
:

Ol Shy & Bashful wrote:
Why is it so many pilots are afraid of stalls? I see it over an
over when doing flight reviews and checks. Why are pilots so
afraid of flying in the low end of the speed envelope? Isn't that
where the nasty things can happen? Isn't that where a pilot should
be comfortable and competent?
What do you think?

For me, there's no question that it's related to my lingering fear
of heights... even after 21 years of flying. I'll do stalls with
no problems when I'm doing my BFR... I even did spin training when
I was a student, but I can't get passed the sensation that the
aircraft is hardly moving forward. It makes me accutely aware of
how high in the air I am. Having said that, it's never caused
much of a problem. I'm probably the best lander at our airport. I
regularly slip all the way to the ground. I think I'm a fairly
precise flyer. I did well on my Instrument rating. I did well when
I did my taildragger transition (in a Luscombe). I know how to fly
the aircraft with precision in the pattern and avoid a stall close
to the ground. I don't think there has to be a correlation between
comfort doing stalls, and being a good pilot.

If you're flying a Luscombe and afraid of stalls, please stop flying
it. Far too many have been wrecked already.


Actually, I found the stalls in our Luscombe fairly easy.

They are. Especially the metal wing ones. Did you spin it? Did you try
and provoke an inadvertant spin?

That's not
the point I was trying to make. The point is that my lingering fear
of heights make it... lets say "uncomfortable" to do stalls, so I
try my best to avoid them.


If you're not comfortable, you're not safe in a Luscombe.



Bertie

Bertie

"Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote in message


Why is it so many pilots are afraid of stalls? I see it over an over
when doing flight reviews and checks. Why are pilots so afraid of
flying in the low end of the speed envelope?

It's more difficult, you have to actually remember to step on the ball, and
the view sucks. :

I think mainly it's because they're taught to avoid the dreaded stall.
Maybe like why some people fear driving on ice and other people can't wait
to go do cookies in a frozen parking lot.

-c

Ol Shy & Bashful wrote:
Why is it so many pilots are afraid of stalls? I see it over an over
when doing flight reviews and checks. Why are pilots so afraid of
flying in the low end of the speed envelope? Isn't that where the
nasty things can happen? Isn't that where a pilot should be
comfortable and competent?
What do you think?
Its a loaded? question and comes from a 24,000+ hour pilot and active
instructor. I'd really like to see some active discussion on this
subject. I'm tired of seeing aircraft damaged by sloppy flying, and
even more tired of seeing people injured by same.
Got any comments?
Ol S&B
I think it's because people read a lot of posts like this thread before
they learn to fly and think, if they are worried about stalls, I should
be too.

Margy

On 2008-02-13 12:53:53 -0800, "Ol Shy & Bashful" said:

Why is it so many pilots are afraid of stalls? I see it over an over
when doing flight reviews and checks. Why are pilots so afraid of
flying in the low end of the speed envelope? Isn't that where the
nasty things can happen? Isn't that where a pilot should be
comfortable and competent?
What do you think?
Its a loaded? question and comes from a 24,000+ hour pilot and active
instructor. I'd really like to see some active discussion on this
subject. I'm tired of seeing aircraft damaged by sloppy flying, and
even more tired of seeing people injured by same.
Got any comments?
Ol S&B

If I have a student who is nervous about stalls, I have him take the
control yoke by the stem behind the horns and have him pull the yoke
back for a power-off stall. This keeps him from trying to use aileron.
Instead of recovering, I have him hold the plane in a stall and just
keep the wings level using rudder. (I of course keep my own feet
lightly on the rudders.)

A pilot's fear of stalls is greatly reduced once he learns that the
airplane will not do anything he will not tell it to do.

I have had instructors who were afraid of stalls. I think this fear of
stalls gets handed down from one instructor to the next. I make sure
that any new flight instructors that I teach gain a thorough
understanding of stalls. We probably spend more time doing stalls than
any other maneuver. I want them to be as boring as dead grass.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

C J Campbell wrote in
news:2008021619364216807-christophercampbell@hotmailcom:

On 2008-02-13 12:53:53 -0800, "Ol Shy & Bashful"
said:

Why is it so many pilots are afraid of stalls? I see it over an over
when doing flight reviews and checks. Why are pilots so afraid of
flying in the low end of the speed envelope? Isn't that where the
nasty things can happen? Isn't that where a pilot should be
comfortable and competent?
What do you think?
Its a loaded? question and comes from a 24,000+ hour pilot and active
instructor. I'd really like to see some active discussion on this
subject. I'm tired of seeing aircraft damaged by sloppy flying, and
even more tired of seeing people injured by same.
Got any comments?
Ol S&B

If I have a student who is nervous about stalls, I have him take the
control yoke by the stem behind the horns and have him pull the yoke
back for a power-off stall. This keeps him from trying to use aileron.
Instead of recovering, I have him hold the plane in a stall and just
keep the wings level using rudder. (I of course keep my own feet
lightly on the rudders.)

A pilot's fear of stalls is greatly reduced once he learns that the
airplane will not do anything he will not tell it to do.



Absoluely. Almost all fears are born of ignorance.


Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Almost all fears are born of ignorance.

Eh? I thought the line went "Ignorance is bliss," not "Ignornace is fear?"

Or that if you are in a bad situation and aren't afraid, you're probably
ignorant of what's going on?

Or is it "We have nothing to fear, but fear itself?"

All these trite statements can't be right, can they?

Jim Logajan wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Almost all fears are born of ignorance.

Eh? I thought the line went "Ignorance is bliss," not "Ignornace is
fear?"


I never said that.


Or that if you are in a bad situation and aren't afraid, you're
probably ignorant of what's going on?

Or that.

Or is it "We have nothing to fear, but fear itself?"


Or that.



All these trite statements can't be right, can they?


Dunno. What is it you fear?


Bertie

On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 06:28:23 -0000, Jim Logajan wrote:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Almost all fears are born of ignorance.

Eh? I thought the line went "Ignorance is bliss," not "Ignornace is fear?"

Starve your fear, feed your life
You'll find that you might
Be completely different all together
And then you'll decide which one you like better
--
Remove numbers for gmail and for God's sake it ain't "gee" either!

Ol Shy & Bashful wrote:

Why is it so many pilots are afraid of stalls? I see it over an over
when doing flight reviews and checks. Why are pilots so afraid of
flying in the low end of the speed envelope? Isn't that where the
nasty things can happen? Isn't that where a pilot should be
comfortable and competent?
What do you think?

I think that to consider stalls within the confines of the low-speed end of
the envelope is naive at best and dangerous at worst. With 24,000+ hours
you obviously know that, but after skimming through the many (many) replies
to this thread I see scant little, if any, acknowledgement that the stall
occurs at a given angle of attack (AoA), not a SPEED!

You can safely (as in not over-stress the airframe) use full control
deflection from the bottom of the green arc (usually Vs) to Vmo. At Vmo,
full elevator deflection will result in the airframe's maximum certified G
load, right before the stall. IOW, max-G and stall occur simultaneously.
Below Vmo, the wing will stall before max-G. At 1G, the wing stalls at Vs.

Here's something to really fry your noodle: at zero-G, the wing wont stall
(think about it).

My point is, stalls are an aerodynamic phenomena that is tied to the AoA,
not the ASI. I have a CFI, ATPL, aerobatics endorsements, etc, and
several thousand hours too...but all this is basic aeronautical knowledge
that is taught at ab-initio stage. Stalls shouldn't be feared, just
understood, then practised until they are as familiar as any other phase of
flight - right across the speed envelope.

BTW, you haven't lived until you've done accelerated stalls that transition
into accelerated spins! Hoo-har!!

James
--
Write yourself a threatening letter and pen a defiant reply.