Realistic Instrument Training using MSFS 2004

wrote in message oups.com...


I have 250+ hours in VMC. I know how to control an aircraft. In VMC
you have this big horizon out the window available to judge your
attitude. In IMC, you just have the instruments. You have to learn
to ignore all physical sensations (no flying by the seat of your pants
here), and trust your instruments. The first part of every instrument
training syllabus I've ever seen emphasizes the ability to control the
airplane first and foremost. An autopilot will do this for you, but
that's no excuse for not knowing how to do it yourself. I don't want
to die from stupidity!


I learned to fly before private pilots received any instrument instruction.
Few of our airplanes had any gyros at all.
In those days, it was drilled into us that a non-instrument pilot,
trapped in IMC, had a life expectancy measured in minutes.
Sounds like you understand that.

On Feb 14, 6:24 pm, "Longworth" wrote:
Steve,
I forgot to mention that I had heard of the Elite program before
but did not want to buy it because of the cost (I already own several
versions of MS FS and X-plane). After visiting a flight school and
got a chance to checkout their Elite program (with the avionic stacks
and a CFII, you can log sim time - the program is the same as the
'home' version), I decided it was worth the money and got it. It is
extremely useful when use in conjunction with Elite excellent training
syllabus which start from the basic instrument settings, scanning
practice, oscar pattern etc. to approaches. Once finish with the
lesson, you can compare your tracks with the program tracks (including
the vertical dimension) to evaluate your progress. Elite also sells
several different ATC scenarios which are very helpful for IFR ATC
communication. We had our instrument ratings in May 05 and each had
logged close to 100hrs of instrument time (actual and simulated) since
then in our Cardinal. We still use the Elite program every so often
to practice a new approach at a new airport or just to sharpen our
skills when the weather is too crappy to fly (we had just shoveled a
foot of snow today!).

Hai Longworth

That's a lot of instrument time! It must be very interesting to be
married to your safety pilot! Talk about CRM!

So did you hand fly while learning with the Elite program? If so, how
hard was it to master?

I've been told that all sims have overly sensitive pitch. That has
been
my
experience with a Frasca, ASA's Instrument Procedure Trainer, and
Elite.
Hard
to understand why no one fixes it, but apparently they don't.


I haven't tried those simulators, just MSFS. I would be willing to
pay the bucks if it would help. It's a lot cheaper than an extra
lesson (or two or three).

I have read that the old Link Trainers were very sensitive in pitch, and
also much more slippery than the aircraft they were intended to train
for--such as B17's. In the case of the Link, I presume that was by
design;
however I have difficulty believing that MSFS would have been done that
way
deliberately.

I have no experience in the Link, or in any of the PC based sims. I am
simply curious and inviting comment.


Dunno what comments you're looking for, but I have Link time.
For flying, they were *at least* as bad as you said!
Stall/Spin events were an everyday occurrence.
But remember, their purpose was for procedures training,
not flight training. They were good for their purpose.

Keep the same attitude toward the PC sims, and you'll be OK.
Even FlightSafety's twin-Cessna full-motion simulator won't simulate
landing.
FlightSafety instructors will issue a flight review in the simulator,
but only after the student certifies the required prior actual aircraft
landings.

I was mostly curious whether the pitch sensitivity and/or slipperiness of
the smaller sims was happenstance or by design.

Of course, you and many others have it exactly right--they are sufficient
for their purpose.

Peter

Jim,
I'd be glad to send you several cubic feet of snow. The snow is
free. You just pay the shiping cost ;-)
Hai Longworth

OK, but I'll have to check with my bank account, first. Delivery will be
the big problem.

It will need to be delivered by some type of air freight. It should fall
out of the sky in little bits at a time, to accumulate to several inches,
over a wide area.

Perhaps we can get Mortimer to deliver it, somehow? g
--
Jim in NC

Steve,
Our Cardinal just have the basic instrument avionics (2 nav/com,
one with glideslope, marker beacon & ADF) . With two instrument rated
pilots, we have not felt the need to add an autopilot so hand flying
is a given. In long cross country trips, I sometimes find it is fun
to challenge myself to stay within 2 degrees of heading, 2 knots of
airspeed and 20 feet in altitude. I try to do the same while
practicing with Elite and it is very satisfying to see nice straight
tracks.

We fly between 200 to 300 hrs per year with less than half in VFR
mainly for sight seeing, photography etc.. BTW, I just bought Rick a
18-200mm VR Nikkor lens and it takes amazingly sharp aerial pictures
with his D50 as seen in this link
http://www.photocritique.net/g/s?109gbc

I think the disciplines that I get from instrument flying have made
me a better VFR pilot. Of course, it is a different kind of flying
and I don't glue my eyes to the gauges in VFR but I think I am more in
tune, more sensitive to the plane speed, pitch etc. Although flying
a sim does not give you the physical feedback, it does help with
forming good flying habits and maintaining discipline.
Good luck with your training. The IFR ticket is a great thing to
have.

Hai Longworth

Plus I won't get spoiled using all those sophisticated
avionics!

Do practice GPS approaches, and all approaches with the Garmin. If you
are not familiar with the box, it -will- bite you.

Jose
--
Humans are pack animals. Above all things, they have a deep need to
follow something, be it a leader, a creed, or a mob. Whosoever fully
understands this holds the world in his hands.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

I was mostly curious whether the pitch sensitivity and/or slipperiness of
the smaller sims was happenstance or by design.

Part of it may be due to the limited travel of the control yoke in a sim.

Jose
--
Humans are pack animals. Above all things, they have a deep need to
follow something, be it a leader, a creed, or a mob. Whosoever fully
understands this holds the world in his hands.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

On Feb 14, 9:55 pm, Jose wrote:
Plus I won't get spoiled using all those sophisticated
avionics!

Do practice GPS approaches, and all approaches with the Garmin. If you
are not familiar with the box, it -will- bite you.

Jose
--
Humans are pack animals. Above all things, they have a deep need to
follow something, be it a leader, a creed, or a mob. Whosoever fully
understands this holds the world in his hands.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

I've only done GPS approaches on the simulator so far. The interface
seems so unintuitive, but everything gets easier with practice. I
definitely plan to include the GPS in my arsenal. I'm hoping the club
will spring for the new WAAS upgrade, so I can experiment with the new
LNAV/VNAV and LPV approaches.

On Feb 14, 9:53 pm, "Longworth" wrote:
Steve,
Our Cardinal just have the basic instrument avionics (2 nav/com,
one with glideslope, marker beacon & ADF) . With two instrument rated
pilots, we have not felt the need to add an autopilot so hand flying
is a given. In long cross country trips, I sometimes find it is fun
to challenge myself to stay within 2 degrees of heading, 2 knots of
airspeed and 20 feet in altitude. I try to do the same while
practicing with Elite and it is very satisfying to see nice straight
tracks.

We fly between 200 to 300 hrs per year with less than half in VFR
mainly for sight seeing, photography etc.. BTW, I just bought Rick a
18-200mm VR Nikkor lens and it takes amazingly sharp aerial pictures
with his D50 as seen in this link
http://www.photocritique.net/g/s?109gbc

I think the disciplines that I get from instrument flying have made
me a better VFR pilot. Of course, it is a different kind of flying
and I don't glue my eyes to the gauges in VFR but I think I am more in
tune, more sensitive to the plane speed, pitch etc. Although flying
a sim does not give you the physical feedback, it does help with
forming good flying habits and maintaining discipline.
Good luck with your training. The IFR ticket is a great thing to
have.

Hai Longworth

You are a very precise pilot indeed. I hope someday to be able to
come close to those standards.

BTW, the photos are fantastic!

On Feb 14, 8:14 pm, "John R. Copeland"
wrote:
wrote in ooglegroups.com...

I have 250+ hours in VMC. I know how to control an aircraft. In VMC
you have this big horizon out the window available to judge your
attitude. In IMC, you just have the instruments. You have to learn
to ignore all physical sensations (no flying by the seat of your pants
here), and trust your instruments. The first part of every instrument
training syllabus I've ever seen emphasizes the ability to control the
airplane first and foremost. An autopilot will do this for you, but
that's no excuse for not knowing how to do it yourself. I don't want
to die from stupidity!

I learned to fly before private pilots received any instrument instruction.
Few of our airplanes had any gyros at all.
In those days, it was drilled into us that a non-instrument pilot,
trapped in IMC, had a life expectancy measured in minutes.
Sounds like you understand that.

I've heard the audio tapes of hapless VFR pilots losing control in the
clouds. I don't want to contribute my name to that list!