![]() |
If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
I am planning a long cross country where I am trying to minmiize the
time the trip will take (while, of course, trying to be as safe as possible). The shortest route would take me straight over the top of Detroit and Clevland and Pittsburg (I am flying from Central Wisconsin to Washington D.C. to be specific). Perhaps this is a no brainer, but that does not sound like a particularly good route to me, just because of the congrestion in these spaces. The congestion (a) increases the likelihood of vectoring delays, and (b) decreases my safety somewhat because the probability of a collision is somewhat higher (although, still quite small, I realize). If I pick a route to the south, I could avoid all of these areas by about 30 miles, but it adds about 60-70 miles to my trip. Even at 30 miles south, I imagine the congestion will be significant. In fact, a controller once implied that it is often better to go straight across the top of a major airport because there are fewer airplanes in transition there (descending for approach, or climbing for departure). So, what do you folks suggest? Thanks in advance for you advice. -Sami N2057M Piper Turbo Arrow III |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
Hey Sami
If you fly above the class B of those areas (10,000 ft) then you dont have any problems, I do this when ever I fly to the other side of phoenix, reason is they always vector me way around their class B, so I got into the habit of just flying over their class B VFR. Just when your near their airspace, you call approach and let them know who you are and where your going so that they know and can advise you of traffic conflicts. If your IFR then they can vector you around, if your VFR then they wont vector you, they will vector the IFR traffic around you. Another thing I got used to doing when flying around the phoenix area, I found oout they like to send me way down south then turn me up. I dont fly IFR into phoenix anymore unless I really have to. "O. Sami Saydjari" wrote: I am planning a long cross country where I am trying to minmiize the time the trip will take (while, of course, trying to be as safe as possible). The shortest route would take me straight over the top of Detroit and Clevland and Pittsburg (I am flying from Central Wisconsin to Washington D.C. to be specific). Perhaps this is a no brainer, but that does not sound like a particularly good route to me, just because of the congrestion in these spaces. The congestion (a) increases the likelihood of vectoring delays, and (b) decreases my safety somewhat because the probability of a collision is somewhat higher (although, still quite small, I realize). If I pick a route to the south, I could avoid all of these areas by about 30 miles, but it adds about 60-70 miles to my trip. Even at 30 miles south, I imagine the congestion will be significant. In fact, a controller once implied that it is often better to go straight across the top of a major airport because there are fewer airplanes in transition there (descending for approach, or climbing for departure). So, what do you folks suggest? Thanks in advance for you advice. -Sami N2057M Piper Turbo Arrow III |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
Jeff wrote:
: Hey Sami : If you fly above the class B of those areas (10,000 ft) then you dont have : any problems, I do this when ever I fly to the other side of phoenix, : reason is they always vector me way around their class B, so I got into : the habit of just flying over their class B VFR. Just when your near their : airspace, you call approach and let them know who you are and where your : going so that they know and can advise you of traffic conflicts. : If your IFR then they can vector you around, if your VFR then they wont : vector you, they will vector the IFR traffic around you. Another thing I : got used to doing when flying around the phoenix area, I found oout they : like to send me way down south then turn me up. I dont fly IFR into : phoenix anymore unless I really have to. I had that decision a few weeks ago flying from Milwaukee to SW Virginia. Flying around Chicago is great if VFR (2000' or lower right along the lakeshore). I ended up "scud running" (MVFR 1500' AGL SCT OVC) along the lake/downtown until though the Bravo. Then I got a clearance and climbed to more favorable winds. The time before I had to file IFR, and they vectored me halfway to Iowa (Rockford, IL) to keep me out of the Class B. Since I won't fly over the lake in my Cherokee, that was the only option. I would imagine that if you go IFR, it could be similar around the big places. VFR you can get up on top and tell 'em to get bent.... ![]() YMMV -Cory -- ************************************************** *********************** * The prime directive of Linux: * * - learn what you don't know, * * - teach what you do. * * (Just my 20 USm$) * ************************************************** *********************** |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
![]() "O. Sami Saydjari" wrote in message ... So, would it be poor form to get an ifr clearance to get above whatever cloud layer at your departure airport....fly VFR when you are on top....then pickup an on-the-fly IFR again 100 miles or so before your destinatation airport if you needed to descend back down through a cloud layer? It's poor form if you don't file the flight plans before requesting the IFR clearances, otherwise no problem. |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
![]() "Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message nk.net... "O. Sami Saydjari" wrote in message ... So, would it be poor form to get an ifr clearance to get above whatever cloud layer at your departure airport....fly VFR when you are on top....then pickup an on-the-fly IFR again 100 miles or so before your destinatation airport if you needed to descend back down through a cloud layer? It's poor form if you don't file the flight plans before requesting the IFR clearances, otherwise no problem. He would need two flight plans for this, right? One to get up, one to get back down. If instead, he requested VFR-on-top, do you think he could generally get the routing he wanted? I mean what would ATC generally do with a request like "N123 request VFR-on-top 7500 direct XYZ VOR, otherwise I'd like to cancel IFR and request VFR advisories". Cheers, John Clonts Temple, Texas N7NZ |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
So, would it be poor form to get an ifr clearance to get above whatever
cloud layer at your departure airport....fly VFR when you are on top....then pickup an on-the-fly IFR again 100 miles or so before your destinatation airport if you needed to descend back down through a cloud layer? I am not saying this is a particularly good idea, or particularly "polite"...I am just asking a question here. No need to cancel that IFR when you get on top, just ask for VFR-on-top ! ATC likes it (reduced separation req.), you get to stay out of ice and go direct, all while maintaining your IFR status when you need to descend at your destination. No begging for popups, just advise you won't be able to maintain VFR and ask for a hard altitude. One of the truly practical procedures out there ! BTW, does anyone know if VFR OT exists in Canada, I know VFR over-the-top (i.e. just VFR above clouds) isn't permitted. Martin |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
![]() "Martin Kosina" wrote in message om... No need to cancel that IFR when you get on top, just ask for VFR-on-top ! ATC likes it (reduced separation req.), you get to stay out of ice and go direct, all while maintaining your IFR status when you need to descend at your destination. VFR-on-top does not affect your route, you'll have to make a separate request for direct. |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
VFR OTT (Over The Top) is allowed in Canada. It's just an extra rating that
can be added on to the PPL with 15 hours instrument time. It can only be used if you are able to climb to altitude and descend at destination whilst maintaining VFR. At altitude you have to maintain a certain distance from the cloud layers. Flight following is not mandatory (but highly recommended!). Ross "Martin Kosina" wrote in message om... So, would it be poor form to get an ifr clearance to get above whatever cloud layer at your departure airport....fly VFR when you are on top....then pickup an on-the-fly IFR again 100 miles or so before your destinatation airport if you needed to descend back down through a cloud layer? I am not saying this is a particularly good idea, or particularly "polite"...I am just asking a question here. No need to cancel that IFR when you get on top, just ask for VFR-on-top ! ATC likes it (reduced separation req.), you get to stay out of ice and go direct, all while maintaining your IFR status when you need to descend at your destination. No begging for popups, just advise you won't be able to maintain VFR and ask for a hard altitude. One of the truly practical procedures out there ! BTW, does anyone know if VFR OT exists in Canada, I know VFR over-the-top (i.e. just VFR above clouds) isn't permitted. Martin |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
you can file a composit flight plan, part IFR and part VFR and do what you mentioned.
the one flight plan will cover your flight. controllers will work with you if they know what your wanting to do. "O. Sami Saydjari" wrote: So, would it be poor form to get an ifr clearance to get above whatever cloud layer at your departure airport....fly VFR when you are on top....then pickup an on-the-fly IFR again 100 miles or so before your destinatation airport if you needed to descend back down through a cloud layer? I am not saying this is a particularly good idea, or particularly "polite"...I am just asking a question here. -Sami wrote: Jeff wrote: : Hey Sami : If you fly above the class B of those areas (10,000 ft) then you dont have : any problems, I do this when ever I fly to the other side of phoenix, : reason is they always vector me way around their class B, so I got into : the habit of just flying over their class B VFR. Just when your near their : airspace, you call approach and let them know who you are and where your : going so that they know and can advise you of traffic conflicts. : If your IFR then they can vector you around, if your VFR then they wont : vector you, they will vector the IFR traffic around you. Another thing I : got used to doing when flying around the phoenix area, I found oout they : like to send me way down south then turn me up. I dont fly IFR into : phoenix anymore unless I really have to. I had that decision a few weeks ago flying from Milwaukee to SW Virginia. Flying around Chicago is great if VFR (2000' or lower right along the lakeshore). I ended up "scud running" (MVFR 1500' AGL SCT OVC) along the lake/downtown until though the Bravo. Then I got a clearance and climbed to more favorable winds. The time before I had to file IFR, and they vectored me halfway to Iowa (Rockford, IL) to keep me out of the Class B. Since I won't fly over the lake in my Cherokee, that was the only option. I would imagine that if you go IFR, it could be similar around the big places. VFR you can get up on top and tell 'em to get bent.... ![]() YMMV -Cory |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
![]() |
||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Marske Flying Wing discussion Group | mat Redsell | Home Built | 0 | September 19th 04 01:58 PM |
Ultralight Club Bylaws - Warning Long Post | MrHabilis | Home Built | 0 | June 11th 04 05:07 PM |
Flying Wing Design workshop in july 04 | mat Redsell | Home Built | 1 | May 5th 04 01:53 PM |
Flying Magazine's Instrument Flying 1973 | Steven P. McNicoll | Instrument Flight Rules | 16 | January 12th 04 03:50 PM |
seeking info from NW Ontario/ Upper Midwest Pilots flying intoAtikokan | David Megginson | Instrument Flight Rules | 0 | July 9th 03 03:04 PM |