C172 and Spins

Anyone else have expereince with the C172E (1964)?

No matter what I did I could not get that bird to spin to the right.

Left spins take some work, and power helps (of course).

But right it just wallows and then steep spirals.



Dan Mc

Dan wrote:
Anyone else have expereince with the C172E (1964)?

No matter what I did I could not get that bird to spin to the right.

Left spins take some work, and power helps (of course).

But right it just wallows and then steep spirals.



Dan Mc
Try accelerating the stall a bit just before reaching the 1g stall point .
Decelerate the airplane carrying just a bit of power into the stall,
then just before it would break naturally, apply aggressive pitch, as
the stall breaks, apply full pro-spin rudder. It should break a lot
cleaner and right into the spin; assuming normal rigging.

--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques wrote:
Dan wrote:
Anyone else have expereince with the C172E (1964)?

No matter what I did I could not get that bird to spin to the right.

Left spins take some work, and power helps (of course).

But right it just wallows and then steep spirals.



Dan Mc
Try accelerating the stall a bit just before reaching the 1g stall point .
Decelerate the airplane carrying just a bit of power into the stall,
then just before it would break naturally, apply aggressive pitch, as
the stall breaks, apply full pro-spin rudder. It should break a lot
cleaner and right into the spin; assuming normal rigging.

Idle the throttle as the stall breaks of course :-)

--
Dudley Henriques

On Mar 17, 6:38 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Dan wrote:
Anyone else have expereince with the C172E (1964)?

No matter what I did I could not get that bird to spin to the right.

Left spins take some work, and power helps (of course).

But right it just wallows and then steep spirals.

Dan Mc

Try accelerating the stall a bit just before reaching the 1g stall point .
Decelerate the airplane carrying just a bit of power into the stall,
then just before it would break naturally, apply aggressive pitch, as
the stall breaks, apply full pro-spin rudder. It should break a lot
cleaner and right into the spin; assuming normal rigging.

--
Dudley Henriques

So a sharper transition to full back pressure?

I tried entering a bit faster (80 MPH) to have enough energy, but no
dice.

As far as rigging -- good question. The right rudder authority seems
less than left. I thought it was left turning tendencies but may
simply be out of rig.

It spun to the right quite nicely from a cross control turn to the
left, but you would have to be a total nincompoop to let that happen
in that airplane -- full left rudder, full right aileron, and yoke all
the way back to the stop.


Dan Mc

Dan wrote:
On Mar 17, 6:38 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Dan wrote:
Anyone else have expereince with the C172E (1964)?
No matter what I did I could not get that bird to spin to the right.
Left spins take some work, and power helps (of course).
But right it just wallows and then steep spirals.
Dan Mc
Try accelerating the stall a bit just before reaching the 1g stall point .
Decelerate the airplane carrying just a bit of power into the stall,
then just before it would break naturally, apply aggressive pitch, as
the stall breaks, apply full pro-spin rudder. It should break a lot
cleaner and right into the spin; assuming normal rigging.

--
Dudley Henriques

So a sharper transition to full back pressure?

I tried entering a bit faster (80 MPH) to have enough energy, but no
dice.

As far as rigging -- good question. The right rudder authority seems
less than left. I thought it was left turning tendencies but may
simply be out of rig.

It spun to the right quite nicely from a cross control turn to the
left, but you would have to be a total nincompoop to let that happen
in that airplane -- full left rudder, full right aileron, and yoke all
the way back to the stop.


Dan Mc
Yes, the trick is an old one really. You "quickly" take the angle of
attack through CLmax instead of flattening out the transition. It's
quicker and a lot sharper a stall break. If you throw in the yaw just as
the stall breaks you should see some increased entry performance.
Actually, if you are REAL sharp and your timing is good, you can help
the entry by leaving the power in to aid the yaw with dynamic pressure
on the deflected rudder, and you can also use aileron into the spin
direction as an aid as the stall moves out toward the tips and the
ailerons still have some degree of input in roll.
Keep in mind that what I'm telling you is for ENTRY only, NOT to be
sustained as entry is achieved. Pro spin controls for the 172 are yoke
full back, rudder full pro into, and ailerons neutral. Make sure you
acheive this configuration as auto rotation commences.

--
Dudley Henriques

On Mar 17, 7:26 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Dan wrote:
On Mar 17, 6:38 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Dan wrote:
Anyone else have expereince with the C172E (1964)?
No matter what I did I could not get that bird to spin to the right.
Left spins take some work, and power helps (of course).
But right it just wallows and then steep spirals.
Dan Mc
Try accelerating the stall a bit just before reaching the 1g stall point .
Decelerate the airplane carrying just a bit of power into the stall,
then just before it would break naturally, apply aggressive pitch, as
the stall breaks, apply full pro-spin rudder. It should break a lot
cleaner and right into the spin; assuming normal rigging.

--
Dudley Henriques

So a sharper transition to full back pressure?

I tried entering a bit faster (80 MPH) to have enough energy, but no
dice.

As far as rigging -- good question. The right rudder authority seems
less than left. I thought it was left turning tendencies but may
simply be out of rig.

It spun to the right quite nicely from a cross control turn to the
left, but you would have to be a total nincompoop to let that happen
in that airplane -- full left rudder, full right aileron, and yoke all
the way back to the stop.

Dan Mc

Yes, the trick is an old one really. You "quickly" take the angle of
attack through CLmax instead of flattening out the transition. It's
quicker and a lot sharper a stall break. If you throw in the yaw just as
the stall breaks you should see some increased entry performance.
Actually, if you are REAL sharp and your timing is good, you can help
the entry by leaving the power in to aid the yaw with dynamic pressure
on the deflected rudder, and you can also use aileron into the spin
direction as an aid as the stall moves out toward the tips and the
ailerons still have some degree of input in roll.
Keep in mind that what I'm telling you is for ENTRY only, NOT to be
sustained as entry is achieved. Pro spin controls for the 172 are yoke
full back, rudder full pro into, and ailerons neutral. Make sure you
acheive this configuration as auto rotation commences.

--
Dudley Henriques

OK... that makes sense. Maintaining a spin required rudder into the
direction of the spin -- otherwise the airplane wanted to transition
to a spiral...

Didn't try aileron into the spin....

So Rolling Rock is close to you? You must be in my neighborhood!


Dan Mc

Dan wrote:
On Mar 17, 7:26 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Dan wrote:
On Mar 17, 6:38 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Dan wrote:
Anyone else have expereince with the C172E (1964)?
No matter what I did I could not get that bird to spin to the right.
Left spins take some work, and power helps (of course).
But right it just wallows and then steep spirals.
Dan Mc
Try accelerating the stall a bit just before reaching the 1g stall point .
Decelerate the airplane carrying just a bit of power into the stall,
then just before it would break naturally, apply aggressive pitch, as
the stall breaks, apply full pro-spin rudder. It should break a lot
cleaner and right into the spin; assuming normal rigging.
--
Dudley Henriques
So a sharper transition to full back pressure?
I tried entering a bit faster (80 MPH) to have enough energy, but no
dice.
As far as rigging -- good question. The right rudder authority seems
less than left. I thought it was left turning tendencies but may
simply be out of rig.
It spun to the right quite nicely from a cross control turn to the
left, but you would have to be a total nincompoop to let that happen
in that airplane -- full left rudder, full right aileron, and yoke all
the way back to the stop.
Dan Mc
Yes, the trick is an old one really. You "quickly" take the angle of
attack through CLmax instead of flattening out the transition. It's
quicker and a lot sharper a stall break. If you throw in the yaw just as
the stall breaks you should see some increased entry performance.
Actually, if you are REAL sharp and your timing is good, you can help
the entry by leaving the power in to aid the yaw with dynamic pressure
on the deflected rudder, and you can also use aileron into the spin
direction as an aid as the stall moves out toward the tips and the
ailerons still have some degree of input in roll.
Keep in mind that what I'm telling you is for ENTRY only, NOT to be
sustained as entry is achieved. Pro spin controls for the 172 are yoke
full back, rudder full pro into, and ailerons neutral. Make sure you
acheive this configuration as auto rotation commences.

--
Dudley Henriques

OK... that makes sense. Maintaining a spin required rudder into the
direction of the spin -- otherwise the airplane wanted to transition
to a spiral...

Didn't try aileron into the spin....

So Rolling Rock is close to you? You must be in my neighborhood!


Dan Mc
Pro-spin for your airplane is power idle, rudder full into, and yoke
full back. Aileron is an ENTRY option ONLY! Neutralize it as the auto
rotaton begins.

We're on the East Coast. You?

--
Dudley Henriques

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:38:38 -0400, Dudley Henriques
wrote:

Dan wrote:
Anyone else have expereince with the C172E (1964)?

No matter what I did I could not get that bird to spin to the right.

Left spins take some work, and power helps (of course).

But right it just wallows and then steep spirals.



Dan Mc
Try accelerating the stall a bit just before reaching the 1g stall point .
Decelerate the airplane carrying just a bit of power into the stall,
then just before it would break naturally, apply aggressive pitch, as
the stall breaks, apply full pro-spin rudder. It should break a lot
cleaner and right into the spin; assuming normal rigging.

Of course an extra bit of enthusiasm could lead to a snap roll. :-))
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Roger wrote:
On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:38:38 -0400, Dudley Henriques
wrote:

Dan wrote:
Anyone else have expereince with the C172E (1964)?

No matter what I did I could not get that bird to spin to the right.

Left spins take some work, and power helps (of course).

But right it just wallows and then steep spirals.



Dan Mc
Try accelerating the stall a bit just before reaching the 1g stall point .
Decelerate the airplane carrying just a bit of power into the stall,
then just before it would break naturally, apply aggressive pitch, as
the stall breaks, apply full pro-spin rudder. It should break a lot
cleaner and right into the spin; assuming normal rigging.

Of course an extra bit of enthusiasm could lead to a snap roll. :-))
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com


Timing Rog....TIMING!!! With women and flying.......it's all in the
TIMING!!!! :-)))

--
Dudley Henriques

In article ,
says...
Roger wrote:
On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:38:38 -0400, Dudley Henriques
wrote:

Dan wrote:
Anyone else have expereince with the C172E (1964)?

No matter what I did I could not get that bird to spin to the right.

Left spins take some work, and power helps (of course).

But right it just wallows and then steep spirals.



Dan Mc
Try accelerating the stall a bit just before reaching the 1g stall point .
Decelerate the airplane carrying just a bit of power into the stall,
then just before it would break naturally, apply aggressive pitch, as
the stall breaks, apply full pro-spin rudder. It should break a lot
cleaner and right into the spin; assuming normal rigging.

Of course an extra bit of enthusiasm could lead to a snap roll. :-))
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com


Timing Rog....TIMING!!! With women and flying.......it's all in the
TIMING!!!! :-)))

Question on this - snap rolls can put some big strains on the a/c - so I
presume the a/c (most 172's I've flown, actually make that *all* - are
in the normal cat, not utility) - is aerobatic? - or at least in the
utility category?

I snap rolled a Traumahawk years ago when I performed a stall turn
(himmelman (sp?) - call it what you like) - when I whacked the rudder
in while I was (obviously) still above stall speed. I ended up flick
rolling and upside down and recovered just fine - but it scared the chit
out of me (the turning force was really quite considerable).

Opinions?

--
Duncan