Engine failure on final

The discussion about cutting power on final reminded me of something
I've been puzzled about for some time now.

If you fly final with some amount of power (which I gather most people
do -- I always have) that seems to guarantee that if you lose your
engine on final you will land short, and there's pretty much nothing you
can do about it. Is that true? Or have I missed something? What
should you do if you lose your engine just after turning base to final?

rg

"Ron Garret"
If you fly final with some amount of power (which I gather most people
do -- I always have) that seems to guarantee that if you lose your
engine on final you will land short, and there's pretty much nothing you
can do about it. Is that true?

Unless you do every landing power off with room to spare, yes. Or, aim for
the mid point of a 2500' plus field. There are ways to do it. But, almost
nobody does. Base turn should be doable power off in most cases in a 172 or
similar glider.

Or have I missed something? What
should you do if you lose your engine just after turning base to final?

Land short. That's why the slow idle check during the run-up is important.

moo

"Happy Dog" wrote in message
...

Unless you do every landing power off with room to spare, yes.

The flip-side of doing every landing power-off, particularly when training
in the pattern, is that you *may* be putting enough extra stress on the
engine to make it *more* likely that the engine will fail in a difficult
position. Hence you may be increasing the overall risk by that pattern of
behaviour.

With typical trainers, it seems unlikely that it would have much long-term
effect. But with larger engines that require more delicate handling, I'd be
very reluctant to fly power-off landings on a regular basis. The effect may
be small but so is, as Michael said, the chance of a catastrophic engine
failure during the period when your glideslope makes a difference.

I'm surprised that the only two accidents that have been cited involve IFR
flights on an approach. They may not have had a choice of glideslope.

Julian Scarfe

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 00:56:22 -0800, Ron Garret
wrote:

If you fly final with some amount of power (which I gather most people
do -- I always have) that seems to guarantee that if you lose your
engine on final you will land short, and there's pretty much nothing you
can do about it. Is that true?

Yes, that's true, and it's why the Old Timers taught power-off
landings, and it's why I fly them routinely.

(To tell the truth, I also like the feeling of whooshing down without
that engine blatting away. Perhaps I was a glider pilot in another
life.)


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net

So what do you do when you are on 1/4-mile final and you spot a coyote
or two playing around in the middle of the runway? This has happened to
me repeatedly in Santa Fe and just serves to remind me that I want some
backup power just in case the landing isn't assured. Perhaps you don't
see this where you fly "routinely" but it could always be something else.
I typically pull the throttle all the way back to idle about 1/4 mile
out, Cessna 172.

-david
--
David Gunter
Santa Fe, NM

In Cub Driver wrote:
On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 00:56:22 -0800, Ron Garret
wrote:

If you fly final with some amount of power (which I gather most people
do -- I always have) that seems to guarantee that if you lose your
engine on final you will land short, and there's pretty much nothing
you can do about it. Is that true?

Yes, that's true, and it's why the Old Timers taught power-off
landings, and it's why I fly them routinely.

(To tell the truth, I also like the feeling of whooshing down without
that engine blatting away. Perhaps I was a glider pilot in another
life.)


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 09:58:29 -0600, David Gunter
wrote:

This has happened to me repeatedly in Santa Fe


I have only flown into SAF three times and that has been in the last 4
months and EVERY time I flew in there, there were always coyotes on
the runway or taxiway. Seems like they would try and do something
about that.


Scott D

To email remove spamcatcher

I typically pull the throttle all the way back to idle about 1/4 mile
out, Cessna 172.

I suggest that you should not be on final 1/4 mile out. Fly the
pattern so you can make the runway from any point on downwind, base,
or final, if the engine quits.

vince norris

"vincent p. norris" wrote:

I suggest that you should not be on final 1/4 mile out.

That would be short final distance. At normal approach speeds and descent rates,
you should be about 200' AGL at 1/4 mile out.

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

Let's see: 1/4 @ 200 ft that would be:

1/4 mile = 6040/4 = 1510 ft

1510/200 = 7.55 L/D required.

OK maybe flaps up and best L/D Speed a C-172 might have 7.5 L/D ratio.
Of course that assumes no head wind.

I think I would prefer to be a little bit higher that that in most
cases .

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

"vincent p. norris" wrote in message
...
I typically pull the throttle all the way back to idle about 1/4 mile
out, Cessna 172.

I suggest that you should not be on final 1/4 mile out. Fly the
pattern so you can make the runway from any point on downwind, base,
or final, if the engine quits.

vince norris

Doesn't 500' AGL at 1/4 mile equal a 3 degree glideslope?
(6076 / 4) / 500 = 3.038

You don't think you'd hit pavement from 1/4 mile out at 500' AGL?

Do you consider 1/4 mile out turning base to final a "bomber pattern."

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ