IFR Cancellation Question

"A Lieberma" wrote in message
. 18...

Severe clear today, so other then the safety net of ATC services, weather
wasn't an issue.

Coming back from HBG (Hattiesburg MS) to MBO (Madison MS) encountered the
following exchange with ATC. I was already told to expect the visual
approach in my inital contact with approach controller. Frequency, while
not wall to wall traffic, was busier then normal.

ATC Sundowner 1943L, descend and maintain 2000, report Madison in sight.
Me 43L will report Madison in sight.
Me Approach 43L, has Madison in sight
ATC 43L radar services terminated, squawk VFR, have a good evening
Me Uh, 43L would like to cancel IFR at this time.
ATC 43L radar services terminated, squawk VFR.
Me, Uh, will assume IFR cancellation received, squawking VFR, good
evening.

I change to Unicom and land as normal. After landing, switch over to
Clearance and Delivery (CD) to see if indeed my IFR cancellation was
received, but it was busy with the controller handling approach and
departure traffic (one guy does all I guess?) so I didn't interrupt the
frequency.

Took my time tying down and hung around for a bit just in case ATC called
the airport, in which they did not (seen this done many times when IFR
traffic forgets to call CD) so I felt comfortable that the airspace was
re-opened for arrivals.

Queston one: I never was cleared for the visual which caught me off
guard on my forth line, and since it was severe clear, I figured go ahead
and cancel my IFR thus negating my need for the visual clearance. No
biggie, but shouldn't I have been cleared for the visual before radar
services are terminated?


Yes. Somewhere between "Sundowner 1943L, descend and maintain 2000, report
Madison in sight." and "43L radar services terminated, squawk VFR, have a
good evening." the controller forgot you were operating IFR.



Question two: While I wanted on the tapes that IFR cancellation was
received (see last transmission by me), was I truly and properly
cancelled out of the IFR system? Since the frequency was busy, figured
to let sleeping dogs rest, but I wasn't comfortable with the fact that I
didn't hear the buzz words "IFR cancellation received".


Properly? No. But you're at the end of the line anyway. If the approach
controller believes you're VFR you're out of the IFR system.



Question three: Is this worthy of ASR filing? No safety issue by any
means, but there were areas left wide open for miscommunication (I.E. not
getting the airpsace freed up for the next IFR arrival).


Any anomaly is worthy of filing.

Does "Sundowner 1943L, descend and maintain 2000, report Madison in sight."
imply the controller thought he was IFR?

Wouldn't he say the same thing with VFR flight following (traffic
advisories)?

you 'da man!

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...
snip Yes. Somewhere between "Sundowner 1943L, descend and maintain 2000,
report Madison in sight." and "43L radar services terminated, squawk VFR,
have a good evening." the controller forgot you were operating IFR.
snip

"dlevy" wrote in message
...

Does "Sundowner 1943L, descend and maintain 2000, report Madison in
sight." imply the controller thought he was IFR?


Yes.


Wouldn't he say the same thing with VFR flight following (traffic
advisories)?


No. Recall that he was told to expect a visual approach on initial contact
with Jackson approach. Only an IFR arrival would be told to expect a visual
approach. The controller told him to report Madison in sight so that he
could issue the visual approach clearance, so he's still thinking IFR at
that point.

On 2006-12-08, Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"dlevy" wrote in message
...

Does "Sundowner 1943L, descend and maintain 2000, report Madison in
sight." imply the controller thought he was IFR?


Yes.

Why? You can get an altitude assignment while VFR and Seattle center
usually asks me to report the field in sight (PAE) even when I'm VFR
before terminating radar services.

-Milen

"Milen Lazarov" wrote in message
...

Why? You can get an altitude assignment while VFR and Seattle center
usually asks me to report the field in sight (PAE) even when I'm VFR
before terminating radar services.


Yes, you can get an altitude assignment while VFR, but you can't (properly)
get one from Seattle Center while VFR. Reporting the field serves a purpose
if you're IFR, but not if you're VFR.

On Thu, 7 Dec 2006 21:10:15 -0800, Milen Lazarov
wrote:

On 2006-12-08, Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"dlevy" wrote in message
...

Does "Sundowner 1943L, descend and maintain 2000, report Madison in
sight." imply the controller thought he was IFR?


Yes.

Why? You can get an altitude assignment while VFR and Seattle center
usually asks me to report the field in sight (PAE) even when I'm VFR
before terminating radar services.

I don't think the above state (descend and maintain) implies IFR.
However, earlier in the post, the controller told the pilot to expect
the visual. That is very much an IFR procedure, and not a VFR one.

So at least at that point the controller thought the original poster
was IFR.

In article ,
"dlevy" wrote:

Does "Sundowner 1943L, descend and maintain 2000, report Madison in sight."
imply the controller thought he was IFR?

Assignment of an altitude pretty much means IFR.

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...

Assignment of an altitude pretty much means IFR.


VFR aircraft can be assigned an altitude in Class C airspace, at 2000 MSL
over MBO he'd be in the Jackson Class C airspace.

dlevy wrote:

Does "Sundowner 1943L, descend and maintain 2000, report Madison in sight."
imply the controller thought he was IFR?

What else could it mean?




Wouldn't he say the same thing with VFR flight following (traffic
advisories)?

Possibly in a class B but not usually. Never anywhere else.

"Newps" wrote in message
. ..

Possibly in a class B but not usually. Never anywhere else.


Also in Class C airspace and TRSAs.