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#1
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New news Soaring is dangerous ?
As we all know soaring has it's challenges and risks. So does
building & flying your own plane. Check out this link and read the second paragraph for details on the danger facing us. www.rv-8project.com/good_bye_to_soaring.htm My question is if soaring is so dangerous why when you go to the NTSB accident pages are their more fatalities in RV's in 1 year than in Soaring? |
#2
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R Barry wrote:
As we all know soaring has it's challenges and risks. So does building & flying your own plane. Check out this link and read the second paragraph for details on the danger facing us. www.rv-8project.com/good_bye_to_soaring.htm My question is if soaring is so dangerous why when you go to the NTSB accident pages are their more fatalities in RV's in 1 year than in Soaring? You read more into it than is there. He says you need to be "totally focused on being a disciplined practitioner of safe soaring" to do it safely, and that he now wants to get back into powered flight, so he won't be able to be totally focused. So he sells the plane. Makes sense to me. He didn't say an RV-8 is more/less safe. |
#3
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I'm more interested in figuring out how he got picture #7 without a
visible wing stand. Perhaps it was a "balance, then run" shot... Could also be that he used some of the same technology used to create the moon landing on a large sound stage too.... :-) R Barry wrote: As we all know soaring has it's challenges and risks. So does building & flying your own plane. Check out this link and read the second paragraph for details on the danger facing us. www.rv-8project.com/good_bye_to_soaring.htm My question is if soaring is so dangerous why when you go to the NTSB accident pages are their more fatalities in RV's in 1 year than in Soaring? |
#4
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Not news! Soaring IS dangerous. The bad news is that it seems to be becoming
more so as time passes. If you believe anything else you need your head read. I understand that there have been 5 fatalities in the Alps in the past two months alone. Ian |
#5
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Earlier, R Barry wrote:
My question is if soaring is so dangerous why when you go to the NTSB accident pages are their more fatalities in RV's in 1 year than in Soaring? I happen to agree with this guy: I believe that there are generally more opportunities to get injured, dismembered, or outright killed in soaring than in the equivalent time spent flying powered airplanes. I further believe that it is likely a testament to the skill and dedication of the average sailplane pilot that there are fewer soaring fatalities than RV fatalities, if indeed that is the case. I've known more than a few pilots who continued soaring past the age at which they no longer had the stamina nor facility of tactics and strategy that it takes to do it safely. I also know several who wisely scale their soaring activity to the scope of their mental and physical resources, and a few who have quit outright on that account. And they may have quit, but they did it while they were ahead. Getting sort of off-topic, here is the text of an essay on soaring safety that I started earlier this season, but never polished off. Maybe it's worth thinking on anyhow. *************************************** Soaring is Dangerous 'You don't have to worry about safety. If you worry about danger, safety will take care of itself.' - Anon This soaring season has not been a good one for me and my friends. There have been three accidents so far at my home field, one of them a fatality involving a friend. There were also two other fatalities involving acquaintences with whom I shared a deep interest in sailplane development. And there have also been one or two additional fatalities involving friends of friends. Recently, I've started to dabble in another sport, that of rock climbing. It has given me a new perspective on safety, one that I think might have value to the world of soaring. Rock climbing is dangerous. Everyone says that. Popular imagery depicts it as an eXtreme sport practiced by hulking youths dangling their butts over the walls of Yosemite, with nothing between them and a 3000-foot plummet except a scrap of shaggy rope and 30 grams of battered aluminum. Dangerous? Sheesh, how could it not be? Oh, and the warning tags that go onto every piece of climbing gear: With few exceptions, they start with the bold disclaimer that 'Rock climbing is a dangerous sport in which you may be seriously injured or die.' However, popular imagery of rock climing does not depict that rock climbers generally are aware of and acknowledge the inherent dangers, and generally do everything practical to stack the odds in their favor. That shaggy-looking scrap of rope the climber is dangling from? Under the slightly battered nylon sheath is a springy core of incredible strength - I could hang my family car from it. Fully loaded. It's connected to the wall at a solid, redundant anchor consisting of two to five attachments, any one of which will probably absorb the impulse of a climber falling the full length of the rope. What I've found in rock climbing is that it seems to be the very act of acknowledging the inherent risks and dangers that equips climbers to address them, and empowers them to do everything practical to mitigate the risks and to stack the odds in their favor. I believe that this frank acknowledgement is what makes rock climbing a relatively safe sport, stastically speaking. Anecdotally, among the climbers I know personally, only about one in five knows someone who's been badly hurt at it, and none of them has had a friend killed at it. Contrast that with soaring, which everyone says is basically safe, and for which I personally could write you a list eight or a dozen names long of friends and acquaintences lost. Lost, not only to me, but to all their family and friends and colleagues and rivals and employers and employees. Soaring pilots, this is what I suggest to you: * Acknowledge that soaring is an inherently unforgiving endeavor that includes risks and dangers. * Educate yourself about the risks and dangers of soaring. * Weigh those risks and dangers against the values and benefits of soaring flight. Weigh them against your personal value to your family, friends, and community. You may be one of the people to whom I am indifferent, or with whom I disagree, or whom I might dislike. But your family loves you and your community values you, and they will all miss you dearly when you are gone. If you find as I have that the balance favors a life that includes soaring with all of its rewards _and_ perils, then soar. But do so with recognition of the inherent dangers, and always with an eye towards doing what you can to mitigate them. *************************************** Thanks, and best regards to all Bob K. |
#6
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"Bob Kuykendall" wrote in message ... Earlier, R Barry wrote: My question is if soaring is so dangerous why when you go to the NTSB accident pages are their more fatalities in RV's in 1 year than in Soaring? I happen to agree with this guy: I believe that there are generally more opportunities to get injured, dismembered, or outright killed in soaring than in the equivalent time spent flying powered airplanes. I further believe that it is likely a testament to the skill and dedication of the average sailplane pilot that there are fewer soaring fatalities than RV fatalities, if indeed that is the case. I've known more than a few pilots who continued soaring past the age at which they no longer had the stamina nor facility of tactics and strategy that it takes to do it safely. I also know several who wisely scale their soaring activity to the scope of their mental and physical resources, and a few who have quit outright on that account. And they may have quit, but they did it while they were ahead. Getting sort of off-topic, here is the text of an essay on soaring safety that I started earlier this season, but never polished off. Maybe it's worth thinking on anyhow. *************************************** Soaring is Dangerous 'You don't have to worry about safety. If you worry about danger, safety will take care of itself.' - Anon This soaring season has not been a good one for me and my friends. There have been three accidents so far at my home field, one of them a fatality involving a friend. There were also two other fatalities involving acquaintences with whom I shared a deep interest in sailplane development. And there have also been one or two additional fatalities involving friends of friends. Recently, I've started to dabble in another sport, that of rock climbing. It has given me a new perspective on safety, one that I think might have value to the world of soaring. Rock climbing is dangerous. Everyone says that. Popular imagery depicts it as an eXtreme sport practiced by hulking youths dangling their butts over the walls of Yosemite, with nothing between them and a 3000-foot plummet except a scrap of shaggy rope and 30 grams of battered aluminum. Dangerous? Sheesh, how could it not be? Oh, and the warning tags that go onto every piece of climbing gear: With few exceptions, they start with the bold disclaimer that 'Rock climbing is a dangerous sport in which you may be seriously injured or die.' However, popular imagery of rock climing does not depict that rock climbers generally are aware of and acknowledge the inherent dangers, and generally do everything practical to stack the odds in their favor. That shaggy-looking scrap of rope the climber is dangling from? Under the slightly battered nylon sheath is a springy core of incredible strength - I could hang my family car from it. Fully loaded. It's connected to the wall at a solid, redundant anchor consisting of two to five attachments, any one of which will probably absorb the impulse of a climber falling the full length of the rope. What I've found in rock climbing is that it seems to be the very act of acknowledging the inherent risks and dangers that equips climbers to address them, and empowers them to do everything practical to mitigate the risks and to stack the odds in their favor. I believe that this frank acknowledgement is what makes rock climbing a relatively safe sport, stastically speaking. Anecdotally, among the climbers I know personally, only about one in five knows someone who's been badly hurt at it, and none of them has had a friend killed at it. Contrast that with soaring, which everyone says is basically safe, and for which I personally could write you a list eight or a dozen names long of friends and acquaintences lost. Lost, not only to me, but to all their family and friends and colleagues and rivals and employers and employees. Soaring pilots, this is what I suggest to you: * Acknowledge that soaring is an inherently unforgiving endeavor that includes risks and dangers. * Educate yourself about the risks and dangers of soaring. * Weigh those risks and dangers against the values and benefits of soaring flight. Weigh them against your personal value to your family, friends, and community. You may be one of the people to whom I am indifferent, or with whom I disagree, or whom I might dislike. But your family loves you and your community values you, and they will all miss you dearly when you are gone. If you find as I have that the balance favors a life that includes soaring with all of its rewards _and_ perils, then soar. But do so with recognition of the inherent dangers, and always with an eye towards doing what you can to mitigate them. *************************************** Thanks, and best regards to all Bob K. I agree, but I might sum it up another way: Soaring CAN be safe but you'd damn well better be good at it. The problem, I think, is that some start with the idea that 'soaring is safe' and then, by extension, 'I don't have to work very hard at being good - because it's safe'. These poor folks inevitably wind up as statistics. Soaring is no safer than the participant makes it. But if the participant decides to make it safe by acquiring the necessary skills, cautious attitudes, and safety ethic, then it is safe. By example, I was surprised at the reaction I got recently when I said that to be safe on a cross country, you must always be with gliding distance of a known-safe landing site. And that site should be reachable at half your best glide. The reaction could be summed up as, "Then nobody would go cross country". That startled me. In response, I gave the example that I am now starting planning on a 1000km straight-out flight that I hope to fly next June. I've chosen the route and located 12 paved runways along the route that can accept the 20 meter span of my Nimbus II. I still need to fill in some gaps with landout sites that can be backcountry strips or farm fields. It may be necessary to drive portions of the route by 4WD to get GPS coordinates of landable fields. I won't fly the route until I have those gaps filled. "Aw, that's too much work", was the response. At that point I gave up. Bill Daniels |
#7
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How do they get home? Too bad he was 44k short of his goal.
Mark Zivley wrote in message om... I'm more interested in figuring out how he got picture #7 without a visible wing stand. Perhaps it was a "balance, then run" shot... Could also be that he used some of the same technology used to create the moon landing on a large sound stage too.... :-) R Barry wrote: As we all know soaring has it's challenges and risks. So does building & flying your own plane. Check out this link and read the second paragraph for details on the danger facing us. www.rv-8project.com/good_bye_to_soaring.htm My question is if soaring is so dangerous why when you go to the NTSB accident pages are their more fatalities in RV's in 1 year than in Soaring? |
#8
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At 18:24 28 September 2004, Mark Zivley wrote:
I'm more interested in figuring out how he got picture #7 without a visible wing stand. 10) Touch and go - photographer has tire marks on hat 9) VERY breezy day 8) Laws of gravity temporarily suspended 7) Those CA desert thermals sure are strong 6) MSH = 0 5) Really skinny crew member hiding behind vertical stab and pushing sideways like crazy 4) Fresh asphalt is soft and sticky 3) Helicopter with fishing line tied to tips hovering just above top of picture 2) Photo is upside down, glider is actually hanging from its wheel 1) Photoshop! ;-) |
#9
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Lovley glider wish I had the cash.
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#10
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"tango4" wrote in message ...
Not news! Soaring IS dangerous. The bad news is that it seems to be becoming more so as time passes. If you believe anything else you need your head read. I understand that there have been 5 fatalities in the Alps in the past two months alone. Ian Here I go again starting **** or opening a can of worms (for discussion)? Your choice, is soaring dangerous ? Are guns dangerous ? Depends who's shooting them and what they are shooting at. Same with cars, trucks, boats, ect guess it depends who's operating them and how. If a person buys a glider and flies it 250 hrs in 5 years equals 50 hours a year and averages say 6.5 hours per flight on cross country flights out of Crystal or any other gliderport how many flights is that per year 7-8? Is the sport dangerous or is the indivual dangerous to himself and others. Yes a good judgement call would be maybe I shouldn't be doing this cause I'm not going to be very proficiant making only 7-8 flightd per year. In the past 12 months I counted over 30 accidents involving RV's of all types resulting in 11 fatalities in the USA. In the same period I counted 23 accidents in gliders resulting in 7 fatalities in the USA. NTSB accident web page was my source. I'm guessing there were more total hours in glider operations than all RV operations in the same period of time. |
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