The State of the Union: Lies about a Dishonest War

"devil" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 13:04:47 +0000, Steven P. McNicoll wrote:


"Fly Guy" wrote in message
...

Ask the Bush administration. They made it an international objective
to force Iraq to prove it did not have WMD. Absurd, yes. Par for the
course for this white house? Yes.


The Iraqis were required to verify the destruction of their WMD by the
cease
fire agreement of 1991. Proving that something has been done is not
proving
a negative.

So that was the cause of the war, eh?


One of them, yes.

"devil" wrote in message
news

Wonderful reason to go to war, if you ask me.


Yes, and I didn't.



If you really believe this was the reason (i.e. not a cheap excuse), I got
a bridge to seel you.


How do you seel a bridge?

On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 06:24:27 -0500, Cub Driver wrote:


Social psychologists have for years known that when people are confronted
with a message that challenges their beliefs they suffer dissonance which
causes psychological discomfort

Psychological discomfort! That's Teddy Kennedy, all right!

There are a number of people who give me that kind of psychological
discomfort, including Richard Nixon.

It's not the message that causes the discomfort, my friend. It's the
messenger. Some people could recite the Ten Commandments, and I would
dismiss everything they say, including Richard Nixon and Teddy
Kennedy, and Adolf Hitler and Richard Dahlmer, and ...

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

Not to mention the fact that "social psychologists" read tea leaves,
consult the intestines of goats, etc. They are, by any reasonable
measure, not scientists and anything that they "know" is derived
from PFM. (Pure F******* Magic).

Al Minyard

gee, ain't it interesting that the object of war is to KILL PEOPLE

What's your point? End war? Nice ideal, but not possible in the current
political situation. (sorry, I'm less than sympathetic)

"Werner J. Severin" wrote in message

t...
Arming Iraq and the Path to War

A crisis always has a history, and the current crisis with Iraq is no
exception. Below are some relevant dates.

September,1980. Iraq invades Iran. The beginning of the Iraq-Iran war.
(8)

February, 1982. Despite objections from congress, President Reagan
removes Iraq from its list of known terrorist countries. (1)

December, 1982. Hughes Aircraft ships 60 Defender helicopters to Iraq.
(9)

1982-1988. Defense Intelligence Agency provides detailed information for
Iraq on Iranian deployments, tactical planning for battles, plans for
air strikes and bomb damage assessments. (4)

November, 1983. A National Security Directive states that the U.S would
do "whatever was necessary and legal" to prevent Iraq from losing its
war with Iran. (1) (15)

November, 1983. Banca Nazionale del Lavoro of Italy and its Branch in
Atlanta begin to funnel $5 billion in unreported loans to Iraq. Iraq,
with the blessing and official approval of the US government, purchased
computer controlled machine tools, computers, scientific instruments,
special alloy steel and aluminum, chemicals, and other industrial goods
for Iraq's missile, chemical, biological and nuclear weapons programs.
(14)

October, 1983. The Reagan Administration begins secretly allowing
Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Egypt to transfer United States
weapons, including Howitzers, Huey helicopters, and bombs to Iraq. These
shipments violated the Arms Export Control Act. (16)

November 1983. George Schultz, the Secretary of State, is given
intelligence reports showing that Iraqi troops are daily using chemical
weapons against the Iranians. (1)

December 20, 1983 Donald Rumsfeld , then a civilian and now Defense
Secretary, meets with Saddam Hussein to assure him of US friendship and
materials support. (1) (15)

July, 1984. CIA begins giving Iraq intelligence necessary to calibrate
its mustard gas attacks on Iranian troops. (19)

January 14, 1984. State Department memo acknowledges United States
shipment of "dual-use" export hardware and technology. Dual use items
are civilian items such as heavy trucks, armored ambulances and
communications gear as well as industrial technology that can have a
military application. (2)

March, 1986. The United States with Great Britain block all Security
Council resolutions condemning Iraq's use of chemical weapons, and on
March 21 the US becomes the only country refusing to sign a Security
Council statement condemning Iraq's use of these weapons. (10)

May, 1986. The US Department of Commerce licenses 70 biological exports
to Iraq between May of 1985 and 1989, including at least 21 batches of
lethal strains of anthrax. (3)

May, 1986. US Department of Commerce approves shipment of weapons grade
botulin poison to Iraq. (7)

March, 1987. President Reagan bows to the findings of the Tower
Commission admitting the sale of arms to Iran in exchange for hostages.
Oliver North uses the profits from the sale to fund an illegal war in
Nicaragua. (17)

Late 1987. The Iraqi Air Force begins using chemical agents against
Kurdish resistance forces in northern Iraq. (1)

February, 1988. Saddam Hussein begins the "Anfal" campaign against the
Kurds of northern Iraq. The Iraq regime used chemical weapons against
the Kurds killing over 100,000 civilians and destroying over 1,200
Kurdish villages. (8)

April, 1988. US Department of Commerce approves shipment of chemicals
used in manufacture of mustard gas. (7)

August, 1988. Four major battles were fought from April to August 1988,
in which the Iraqis massively and effectively used chemical weapons to
defeat the Iranians. Nerve gas and blister agents such as mustard gas
are used. By this time the US Defense Intelligence Agency is heavily
involved with Saddam Hussein in battle plan assistance, intelligence
gathering and post battle debriefing. In the last major battle with of
the war, 65,000 Iranians are killed, many with poison gas. Use of
chemical weapons in war is in violation of the Geneva accords of 1925.
(6) (13)

August, 1988. Iraq and Iran declare a cease fire. (8)

August, 1988. Five days after the cease fire Saddam Hussein sends his
planes and helicopters to northern Iraq to begin massive chemical
attacks against the Kurds. (8)

September, 1988. US Department of Commerce approves shipment of weapons
grade anthrax and botulinum to Iraq. (7)

September 1988. Richard Murphy, Assistant Secretary of State: "The
US-Iraqi relationship is... important to our long-term political and
economic objectives." (15)

December, 1988. Dow chemical sells $1.5 million in pesticides to Iraq
despite knowledge that these would be used in chemical weapons. (1)

July 25, 1990. US Ambassador to Baghdad meets with Hussein to assure him
that President Bush "wanted better and deeper relations". Many believe
this visit was a trap set for Hussein. A month later Hussein invaded
Kuwait thinking the US would not respond. (12)

August, 1990 Iraq invades Kuwait. The precursor to the Gulf War. (8)

July, 1991 The Financial Times of London reveals that a Florida chemical
company had produced and shipped cyanide to Iraq during the 80's using a
special CIA courier. Cyanide was used extensively against the Iranians.
(11)

August, 1991. Christopher Droguol of Atlanta's branch of Banca Nazionale
del Lavoro is arrested for his role in supplying loans to Iraq for the
purchase of military supplies. He is charged with 347 counts of felony.
Droguol is found guilty, but US officials plead innocent of any
knowledge of his crime. (14)

June, 1992. Ted Kopple of ABC Nightline reports: "It is becoming
increasingly clear that George Bush Sr., operating largely behind the
scenes throughout the 1980's, initiated and supported much of the
financing, intelligence, and military help that built Saddam's Iraq into
[an aggressive power]." (5)

July, 1992. "The Bush administration deliberately, not inadvertently,
helped to arm Iraq by allowing U.S. technology to be shipped to Iraqi
military and to Iraqi defense factories... Throughout the course of the
Bush administration, U.S. and foreign firms were granted export licenses
to ship U.S. technology directly to Iraqi weapons facilities despite
ample evidence showing that these factories were producing weapons."
Representative Henry Gonzalez, Texas, testimony before the House. (18)

February, 1994. Senator Riegle from Michigan, chairman of the Senate
Banking Committee, testifies before the senate revealing large US
shipments of dual-use biological and chemical agents to Iraq that may
have been used against US troops in the Gulf War and probably was the
cause of the illness known as Gulf War Syndrome. (7)

August, 2002. "The use of gas [during the Iran-Iraq war] on the battle
field by the Iraqis was not a matter of deep strategic concern... We
were desperate to make sure that Iraq did not lose". Colonel Walter
Lang, former senior US Defense Intelligence officer tells the New York
Times. (4)

This chronology of the United States' sordid involvement in the arming
of Iraq can be summarized in this way: The United States used methods
both legal and illegal to help build Saddam's army into the most
powerful army in the Mideast outside of Israel. The US supplied chemical
and biological agents and technology to Iraq when it knew Iraq was using
chemical weapons against the Iranians. The US supplied the materials and
technology for these weapons of mass destruction to Iraq at a time when
it was know that Saddam was using this technology to kill his Kurdish
citizens. The United States supplied intelligence and battle planning
information to Iraq when those battle plans included the use of cyanide,
mustard gas and nerve agents. The United States blocked UN censure of
Iraq's use of chemical weapons. The United States did not act alone in
this effort. The Soviet Union was the largest weapons supplier, but
England, France and Germany were also involved in the shipment of arms
and technology.

So what do these events have to do with the current conflict? Just this:
If we do go to war with Iraq, it is important to know why. War will not
really be about terrorism. Twenty years ago the United States threw its
support behind Saddam Hussein in a geopolitical bid for enhanced access
to oil. The trajectory given him by our support lead directly to the
Gulf War and to the current crises. War, after all, will be about a
history of misdeeds and miscalculations. And war will not be about
morality. War will be about cynicism, deceit and a thirst for oil that
knows no boundaries.

John King
Long Prairie, MN

1. Washingtonpost.com. December 30, 2002
2. Jonathan Broder. Nuclear times, Winter 1990-91
3. Kurt Nimno. AlterNet. September 23, 2002
4. Newyorktimes.com. August 29, 2002
5. ABC Nightline. June9, 1992
6. Counter Punch, October 10, 2002
7. Riegle Report: Dual Use Exports. Senate Committee on Banking. May 25,
1994
8. Timeline: A walk Through Iraq's History. U.S. Department of State
9. Doing Business: The Arming of Iraq. Daniel Robichear
10. Glen Rangwala. Labor Left Briefing, 16 September, 2002
11. Financial Times of London. July 3, 1991
12. Elson E. Boles. Counter Punch. October 10, 2002
13. Iran-Iraq War, 1980-1988. Iranchamber.com
14. Columbia Journalism Review. March/April 1993. Iraqgate
15. Times Online. December 31, 2002. How U.S. Helped Iraq Build Deadly
Arsenal
16. Bush's Secret Mission. The New Yorker Magazine. November 2, 1992
17. Grolier Multimedia Encyclopedia: Iran-Contra Affair
18. Congressional Record. July 27, 1992. Representative Henry B. Gonzalez
19. Bob Woodward. CIA Aiding Iraq in Gulf War. Washington Post. 15
December, 1986
20. WWW.gendercide.com http://www.gendercide.com . Case Study: The Anfal
Campaign

On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 18:36:55 GMT, "DALing"
daling43[delete]-at-hotmail.com wrote:

gee, ain't it interesting that the object of war is to KILL PEOPLE

Err, no. That's a tactic or strategy. The object is to accomplish
whatever got you into the war in the first place. And "people" is not
an undifferentiated mass.

In article , "DALing"
daling43[delete]-at-hotmail.com wrote:

gee, ain't it interesting that the object of war is to KILL PEOPLE

What's your point? End war? Nice ideal, but not possible in the current
political situation. (sorry, I'm less than sympathetic)

"Werner J. Severin" wrote in message

t...
Arming Iraq and the Path to War

A crisis always has a history, and the current crisis with Iraq is no
exception. Below are some relevant dates.


You need not lecture me on the object of war. More than half a century
ago I soldiered my way across half of Europe (probably long before you
were born).

Served 45 months in the Army, 39 consecutive months overseas. Shipped over
on a troopship at age 18 and returned to be discharged as a Staff Sgt. six
weeks before my 22 birthday. I have seen what war does to people and
cities.

We do have the Geneva conventions and other international treaties. Too
bad we ignore them.

And the point of my post was that we were highly involved in providing
Iraq with the weapons we now condemn them for having used. And we knew
they were using them.

True, US supplying of Iraq was more the issue of "my enemy's enemy is my
friend" than anything else. Politics makes strange bedfellows, doesn't it?

(oh, and I got out of the army myself about 40 years ago - VietNam and all
that)

"Werner J. Severin" wrote in message

....
In article , "DALing"
daling43[delete]-at-hotmail.com wrote:

gee, ain't it interesting that the object of war is to KILL PEOPLE

What's your point? End war? Nice ideal, but not possible in the
current
political situation. (sorry, I'm less than sympathetic)

"Werner J. Severin" wrote in message


t...
Arming Iraq and the Path to War

A crisis always has a history, and the current crisis with Iraq is no
exception. Below are some relevant dates.


You need not lecture me on the object of war. More than half a century
ago I soldiered my way across half of Europe (probably long before you
were born).

Served 45 months in the Army, 39 consecutive months overseas. Shipped over
on a troopship at age 18 and returned to be discharged as a Staff Sgt. six
weeks before my 22 birthday. I have seen what war does to people and
cities.

We do have the Geneva conventions and other international treaties. Too
bad we ignore them.

And the point of my post was that we were highly involved in providing
Iraq with the weapons we now condemn them for having used. And we knew
they were using them.

"DALing" daling43[delete]-at-hotmail.com wrote in message
...
True, US supplying of Iraq was more the issue of "my enemy's enemy is my
friend" than anything else. Politics makes strange bedfellows, doesn't it?

(oh, and I got out of the army myself about 40 years ago - VietNam and all
that)

As an american citizen, I humbly apologize for what our country did to our
VietNam veterans and their families. I shudder to think what we will be
doing to our Iraqi Invasion vets.

particularly since there aren't so MANY of them (but remember, they are all
"volunteers")

"None" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"DALing" daling43[delete]-at-hotmail.com wrote in message
...
True, US supplying of Iraq was more the issue of "my enemy's enemy is my
friend" than anything else. Politics makes strange bedfellows, doesn't
it?

(oh, and I got out of the army myself about 40 years ago - VietNam and
all
that)

As an american citizen, I humbly apologize for what our country did to our
VietNam veterans and their families. I shudder to think what we will be
doing to our Iraqi Invasion vets.

DALing wrote:

True, US supplying of Iraq was more the issue of "my enemy's
enemy is my friend" than anything else.

The new rule of thumb:

The enemy of my enemy is just another enemy.