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#21
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Autogas Tips and Tricks
"tony roberts" wrote in message news:indiacharlieecho-3078EB.21441326042007@shawnews... Here in Canada, friends who fly with Mogas use Chevron - they tell me it doesn't contain alcohol. Our government is threatning to add ethanol to pretty much all gas next year. Aircraft Spruce sell an alcohol testing kit. I believe that it separates out the alcohol - so that you can drink it - but I could be wrong Tony -- Tony Roberts PP-ASEL VFR OTT Night Cessna 172H C-GICE Ugh! That gives added meaning to "rot gut"! I can not find the reference at the moment, so will not mention the source; but I seem to recall that adding about 10% water to the fuel, agitating it, and letting it settle will cause the water/alcohol mixture to be precipitated. Presuming that my recollection is correct, that still leaves three problems: 1) disposal of the contaminant, 2) unknown performance number of the resulting fuel, and 3) increased cost of material and labor. Fortunately, if the volume of alcohol is nearly as great as the volume of water added, the contaminant could possibly be burned as a means of disposal. Obiously, an effort to change legislation so that contaminants are no longer added to gasolene would be a better long term solution. Peter |
#22
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Autogas Tips and Tricks
"PD" == Peter Dohm writes:
PD but I seem to recall that adding about 10% PD water to the fuel, agitating it, and letting it settle will PD cause the water/alcohol mixture to be precipitated. There's a guy I know who does this. Sounds suicidal to me just to save a few bucks. -- A man's only as old as the woman he feels. Groucho Marx |
#23
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Autogas Tips and Tricks
In article . com,
"Robert M. Gary" wrote: On Apr 27, 6:06 am, Orval Fairbairn wrote: In article .com, "Robert M. Gary" wrote: Al wrote: With 100LL now creeping toward the $5 mark (or more), it's time to take advantage of the Peterson autogas STC in our 172E. What are the tips and tricks for operating with mogas. Different run-up techniques? Taxiing, hi temperatures, vapor lock avoidance, winter ops. You name it. Inquiring minds want to know. Thanks in advance. Al 1964 172E KSFF Find someplace where the autogas mixture is not prohibited by the FAA. -robert That would be everywhere in the USA. As long as you have the appropriate STC's and mogas, you can mix avgas and mogas to your heart's content. Which STC allows for mogas with alcohol? I've called EAA on this and they said they are not aware of any. The FAA is concerned that the seals in the fuel system will break. Besides, I've seen what this new mogas has done to my weed-eater. The local mower shop is backed up 45 days in repair cleaning out carbs trying to get this cruddy gas out. -Robert Robert, You didn't ask about mogas containing alcohol -- you asked about mogas/avgas mixing. You are correct that alcohol and aviation hoses, seals, fibreglass tanks, etc. are, at best, an iffy proposition and are not approved. Boat operators, for instance, are having problems with alcohol attacking fibreglass fuel tanks. It decomposes the resin (probably polyester) and deposits goo in fuel filters, carburetors, etc. In fact, there is a problem if you run petroleum-based fuel and switch to parrafin-based fuel, or vice-versa. The neoprene hoses acclimate to the fuel in use and harden when another type is introduced. This phenomenon is probably the cause of a rash of vehicle fires in the 1990s in California, when MTBE was introduced to fuel there. |
#24
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Autogas Tips and Tricks
On Apr 27, 12:42 pm, Orval Fairbairn
wrote: You didn't ask about mogas containing alcohol -- you asked about mogas/avgas mixing. I pointed out that the mixture that the refineries are using generally prohibit the resulting mogas from being used in aircraft. I never said anything about mixing avgas with mogas. -robert |
#25
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Autogas Tips and Tricks
"Ron Natalie" wrote in message m... : It more closely matches the 80 your O300 was designed for : : Only in octane perhaps. It still has more than twice the lead. : : There is an advisory for the O300 about vapor lock and the CPA : recommends flying only on one tank anytime above 5000' so you can easily : clear the lock. : : That recommendation comes from Cessna itself, and has nothing to do with : auto fuel. I thought it was an AD. My 172A fuel selector is placarded to do this. |
#26
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Autogas Tips and Tricks
Blueskies wrote:
I thought it was an AD. My 172A fuel selector is placarded to do this. You're correct. It was an AD (not a recommendation from Cessna) and the placard was required on affected models. John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180) -- Message posted via http://www.aviationkb.com |
#27
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Autogas Tips and Tricks
Al wrote:
What are the tips and tricks for operating with mogas. Different run-up techniques? Taxiing, hi temperatures, vapor lock avoidance, winter ops. You name it. Inquiring minds want to know. Operationally, it's the same. In addition to the standard cautions about avoiding ethanol tainted mogas, you should also get your mogas from a source that has a relatively high turnover. This time of year is when most vapor lock problems show up. It's because the refineries are switching from their winter blends, which vaporize much easier in cold, to the summer blends. If you fill up with winter blend on a hot day, you could experience vapor lock. John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180) -- Message posted via http://www.aviationkb.com |
#28
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Autogas Tips and Tricks
Mike Isaksen wrote:
I was talking to the Rotax guys (Lockwood or similar) and they mentioned the same "ethanol up to 5% is OK" number. I got distracted and never asked the followed up question re the problem that most east coast states typically blend at 10%. Anyone heard or has any actual experience of running 10%. It's more than just the engine. One of the problems with running ethanol is that it may react with fuel system components that were not designed to handle it. The engine manufacturer has no control over what goes into the hoses, tanks, fuel pump diaphrams, etc... That's the big problem with ethanol in most older aircraft. Ethanol wasn't a factor when the fuel systems were designed and built in the 60s and 70s. Ethanol can melt or swell some of the components used in those systems. When I started using ethanal mogas in my old '69 Merc, I had composite floats that turned to goo, and a couple of 1/4" rubber lines swelled up like hot dogs. John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180) -- Message posted via http://www.aviationkb.com |
#29
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Autogas Tips and Tricks
In fact, there is a problem if you run petroleum-based fuel and switch to parrafin-based fuel, or vice-versa. Isn't paraffin just part of petroleum product? Mogas, avgas and jet-A are all largely paraffinic. Mogas nowadays have a fairly high aromatics content. |
#30
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Autogas Tips and Tricks
"Orval Fairbairn" wrote Boat operators, for instance, are having problems with alcohol attacking fibreglass fuel tanks. It decomposes the resin (probably polyester) and deposits goo in fuel filters, carburetors, etc. In fact, there is a problem if you run petroleum-based fuel and switch to parrafin-based fuel, or vice-versa. The neoprene hoses acclimate to the fuel in use and harden when another type is introduced. I had a problem with 10% alcohol fuel, back around 1988, when I filled up twice in a row, with the alcohol fuel, in a 34' Pace Arrow motor home. Halfway through the second tank, it started to run at about half power. (not enough power to pull a good sized hill) Long to short, after much hair pulling, I discovered that all of the varnish accumulated in the fuel system for thousands of gallons, and 10 or so years, was suddenly dissolved, and then deposited in the big canister type fuel filter. I would think that even if the fuel hoses and O-rings and such were alcohol safe, that this type of problem could be very likely to happen in an airplane. -- Jim in NC |
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