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Made in the USA
Ok, just spent a week at Oshgosh like quite a few of you and, although
I noticed this before it just hasn't changed much. How many LSA's are made in the U.S.A.? I don't mean assembled, I mean, manufactured. Is it really impossible for Americans to design, manufacture, and sell products at a reasonable price and still make a living? Aircraft should be one thing my country could excel at. We have everything needed, materials, knowledge, ability, and desire, but most every aircraft in this category is either imported or the parts are imported and then assembled here. I'm not talking about a product that cost more to make than to just buy a cheap import. Light Sport planes have gone through the roof in just a matter of a couple of years. You can't convince me that there isn't a plane that can be designed and manufactured for a competitve price. It's not that I am against any other country making a buck here. I'm just very dissapointed in Americans not even trying. What happened here? Just a thought. Lou |
#2
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Made in the USA
In a previous article, "Lou" said:
I noticed this before it just hasn't changed much. How many LSA's are made in the U.S.A.? I don't mean assembled, I mean, manufactured. Is it really impossible for Americans to design, manufacture, and sell You have to remember that LSA is a response to an existing European class (Microlight?). Most LSAs you see now were developed in Europe a few years ago for that class - but as LSA matures, more US manufacturers will step up. Just look at Cessna - they had a proof of concept demonstrator there, and with their name recognition I bet they'd sell hundreds of them if they went into production. All those flight schools looking to replace their aging 150s would be a sure bet to prefer a new Cessna. It will help when US manufacturers come up with an engine that can compete with the Rotax and Jabiru ones. -- Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/ `I was all fired up to write a big rant, but instead found apathy to be a more worthwhile solution.' --- Ashley Penney |
#3
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Made in the USA
You may be right about the LSA being a response to the mircrolights of
Eroupe, but it was my understanding that LSA was to lower the cost and requirements of flying. This way USA would increase their pilot community instead of the current decrease. Now I will agree with you that Americans need to develop a good engine to compete rather than the dissappointing choices we have now. Really, how hard can this be for any of the current engine (not limited to aviation) manufacturer's to figure out. Honda was smart enough to see that an airplane engine alone was bringing in more money than some of thier cars. As for Cessna's proof of concept. I would be very suprised if it sold for under $120,000. If this is the case I don't think you will see alot of 152's being replaced with this airplane. They won't be targeting that group so their advertising points will not be towards this group. After all if you can get a plane with the same qualities as a Cessna for $20.000 and the flight school needs five planes for replacement, It would be like a buy 5 get one free sale. Lou |
#4
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Made in the USA
In a previous article, "Lou" said:
You may be right about the LSA being a response to the mircrolights of Eroupe, but it was my understanding that LSA was to lower the cost and Look at the max gross weight on LSA. 1320 pounds isn't a very round number and you might wonder why they chose it, but the Microlight class was already limited to 600kg and they just converted that to pounds and rounded down a bit. figure out. Honda was smart enough to see that an airplane engine alone was bringing in more money than some of thier cars. Except they're only looking at jets. People looking for cheap aircraft aren't looking at jets. Several other car makers have tried aircraft engine development, and decided it wasn't a money maker. And Continental and Lycoming will just want to produce smaller versions of their existing old-technology engines. As for Cessna's proof of concept. I would be very suprised if it sold for under $120,000. I would be very surprised if it wasn't between $90K and $100K, since that seems to be the competitive price for LSA. And after they've been on the market a few years, I'll be looking to buy a used one. -- Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/ Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything he learned in school. -- A. Einstein |
#5
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Made in the USA
Earlier, Lou wrote:
... Aircraft should be one thing my country could excel at. We have everything needed, materials, knowledge, ability, and desire, but most every aircraft in this category is either imported or the parts are imported and then assembled here. The very most expensive part of manufacturing most things is hourly wages. So in parts of the globe where hourly wages are high, it's expensive to make things unless your manufacturing processes are extremely effecient and effective. Sure, the big Japanese car makers can run car plants in the US with US workers. But observe that their manufacturing processes are extremely, extremely effecient. It's nothing at all like making the sort of things that sell at the low unit numbers of aircraft and aviation products. Almost everybody's got a car, but almost nobody owns an airplane. Further, observe that a great deal of commercial aircraft inspection, repair, modification, and maintenance has already been outsourced. Now a lot of it is done in places like South America, Asia, and Eastern Europe - places that have dedicated specialists combined with low hourly wages. Yes, we've got everything we need to excel at aircraft and aviation. But plenty of other countries do too, and many of them have wage and class structures that makes the most expensive part of it cheaper. Thanks, and best regards to all Bob K. http://www.hpaircraft.com/hp-24 |
#6
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Made in the USA
Paul Tomblin wrote:
As for Cessna's proof of concept. I would be very suprised if it sold for under $120,000. I would be very surprised if it wasn't between $90K and $100K, since that seems to be the competitive price for LSA. If you see Poland or Tchek LSA (JAR-VLA) plane, you can't expect long life, made like ultralight. If you see a C150, you see planes with thousand flying hours.... I would prefer spend $120k for Cessna LSA (or french APM01) than $90k for an AT3 http://www.apm20lionceau.com/ http://www.edsmart.com/falcon/at3.htm by -- Pub: http://www.slowfood.fr/france Philippe Vessaire Ò¿Ó¬ |
#7
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Made in the USA
"Lou" wrote in message oups.com... You may be right about the LSA being a response to the mircrolights of Eroupe, but it was my understanding that LSA was to lower the cost and requirements of flying. This way USA would increase their pilot community instead of the current decrease. Now I will agree with you that Americans need to develop a good engine to compete rather than the dissappointing choices we have now. Really, how hard can this be for any of the current engine (not limited to aviation) manufacturer's to figure out. Honda was smart enough to see that an airplane engine alone was bringing in more money than some of thier cars. As for Cessna's proof of concept. I would be very suprised if it sold for under $120,000. If this is the case I don't think you will see alot of 152's being replaced with this airplane. They won't be targeting that group so their advertising points will not be towards this group. After all if you can get a plane with the same qualities as a Cessna for $20.000 and the flight school needs five planes for replacement, It would be like a buy 5 get one free sale. I thought flight schools bought new planes, wore them out, then sold them for $20K? I don't think it is really fair comparing new plane to used planes anymore than it is comparing new cars to used cars. What, you just bought a new Ram pickup for $32K when you could have bought a used one with 150K miles on it for $10K? |
#8
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Made in the USA
On Tue, 1 Aug 2006 14:43:13 +0000 (UTC), (Paul
Tomblin) wrote: You may be right about the LSA being a response to the mircrolights of Eroupe.... Not precisely. The Sport Pilot limits were established to coincide with the European Microlight definition. This meant that most, if not all, of the existing, in-production Microlights already met Sport Pilot. To sell their aircraft as ready-to-fly in the US, the European manufacturers then merely had to take their aircraft through the new LSA certification process. Until the LSA regulations were finalized, a US manufacturer didn't dare produce an aircraft unless they intended to compete in the already-crowded European market. As for Cessna's proof of concept. I would be very suprised if it sold for under $120,000. I would be very surprised if it wasn't between $90K and $100K, since that seems to be the competitive price for LSA. I've heard that the new Cessna isn't intended as an LSA. It meets the Sport Pilot limits, but Cessna will supposedly certify it in the Normal category. It makes a heck of a lot of sense. Cessna has all the corporate processes for a Normal category certification, and they minimize their liability exposure since maintenance and inspections will still require A&Ps. And after they've been on the market a few years, I'll be looking to buy a used one. Even better, in a few years, used engines will be available for the homebuilt market. Ron Wanttaja |
#9
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Made in the USA
OK,,Want to know what I think about the L.S.A. part in U.S., look and think
about this,,250 pounds of aluminum cost , say two dollars a foot,,drill a hole in each end of a length of tubing and suddenly it's an airplane part and cost 50 times the purchase price. Labor is not the total cost of the rise in price but human greed on the part of the manufacturer..Is anybody really worth one million dollars a month ON RETIREMENT??? Americans are spoiled rotten and totally consumed with their own greed . If they have one good thought about something,instead of sharing, they want to be paid the rest of their lives for it. We deserve to be destroyed as Sodom and Gomorra ..Even Christ drew a line in the sand and dared others to cross it. We have no line except each our own and it s drawn in different places as the limit of our morality .And some of us have none.!!!! "Lou" wrote in message oups.com... Ok, just spent a week at Oshgosh like quite a few of you and, although I noticed this before it just hasn't changed much. How many LSA's are made in the U.S.A.? I don't mean assembled, I mean, manufactured. Is it really impossible for Americans to design, manufacture, and sell products at a reasonable price and still make a living? Aircraft should be one thing my country could excel at. We have everything needed, materials, knowledge, ability, and desire, but most every aircraft in this category is either imported or the parts are imported and then assembled here. I'm not talking about a product that cost more to make than to just buy a cheap import. Light Sport planes have gone through the roof in just a matter of a couple of years. You can't convince me that there isn't a plane that can be designed and manufactured for a competitve price. It's not that I am against any other country making a buck here. I'm just very dissapointed in Americans not even trying. What happened here? Just a thought. Lou |
#10
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Made in the USA
...................and just when I thought I was going to have an
intelligent conversation. Lou |
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