C172 and Spins

Anyone else have expereince with the C172E (1964)?

No matter what I did I could not get that bird to spin to the right.

Left spins take some work, and power helps (of course).

But right it just wallows and then steep spirals.



Dan Mc

Dan wrote:
Anyone else have expereince with the C172E (1964)?

No matter what I did I could not get that bird to spin to the right.

Left spins take some work, and power helps (of course).

But right it just wallows and then steep spirals.



Dan Mc
Try accelerating the stall a bit just before reaching the 1g stall point .
Decelerate the airplane carrying just a bit of power into the stall,
then just before it would break naturally, apply aggressive pitch, as
the stall breaks, apply full pro-spin rudder. It should break a lot
cleaner and right into the spin; assuming normal rigging.

--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques wrote:
Dan wrote:
Anyone else have expereince with the C172E (1964)?

No matter what I did I could not get that bird to spin to the right.

Left spins take some work, and power helps (of course).

But right it just wallows and then steep spirals.



Dan Mc
Try accelerating the stall a bit just before reaching the 1g stall point .
Decelerate the airplane carrying just a bit of power into the stall,
then just before it would break naturally, apply aggressive pitch, as
the stall breaks, apply full pro-spin rudder. It should break a lot
cleaner and right into the spin; assuming normal rigging.

Idle the throttle as the stall breaks of course :-)

--
Dudley Henriques

On Mar 17, 6:38 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Dan wrote:
Anyone else have expereince with the C172E (1964)?

No matter what I did I could not get that bird to spin to the right.

Left spins take some work, and power helps (of course).

But right it just wallows and then steep spirals.

Dan Mc

Try accelerating the stall a bit just before reaching the 1g stall point .
Decelerate the airplane carrying just a bit of power into the stall,
then just before it would break naturally, apply aggressive pitch, as
the stall breaks, apply full pro-spin rudder. It should break a lot
cleaner and right into the spin; assuming normal rigging.

--
Dudley Henriques

So a sharper transition to full back pressure?

I tried entering a bit faster (80 MPH) to have enough energy, but no
dice.

As far as rigging -- good question. The right rudder authority seems
less than left. I thought it was left turning tendencies but may
simply be out of rig.

It spun to the right quite nicely from a cross control turn to the
left, but you would have to be a total nincompoop to let that happen
in that airplane -- full left rudder, full right aileron, and yoke all
the way back to the stop.


Dan Mc

Dan wrote:
On Mar 17, 6:38 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Dan wrote:
Anyone else have expereince with the C172E (1964)?
No matter what I did I could not get that bird to spin to the right.
Left spins take some work, and power helps (of course).
But right it just wallows and then steep spirals.
Dan Mc
Try accelerating the stall a bit just before reaching the 1g stall point .
Decelerate the airplane carrying just a bit of power into the stall,
then just before it would break naturally, apply aggressive pitch, as
the stall breaks, apply full pro-spin rudder. It should break a lot
cleaner and right into the spin; assuming normal rigging.

--
Dudley Henriques

So a sharper transition to full back pressure?

I tried entering a bit faster (80 MPH) to have enough energy, but no
dice.

As far as rigging -- good question. The right rudder authority seems
less than left. I thought it was left turning tendencies but may
simply be out of rig.

It spun to the right quite nicely from a cross control turn to the
left, but you would have to be a total nincompoop to let that happen
in that airplane -- full left rudder, full right aileron, and yoke all
the way back to the stop.


Dan Mc
Yes, the trick is an old one really. You "quickly" take the angle of
attack through CLmax instead of flattening out the transition. It's
quicker and a lot sharper a stall break. If you throw in the yaw just as
the stall breaks you should see some increased entry performance.
Actually, if you are REAL sharp and your timing is good, you can help
the entry by leaving the power in to aid the yaw with dynamic pressure
on the deflected rudder, and you can also use aileron into the spin
direction as an aid as the stall moves out toward the tips and the
ailerons still have some degree of input in roll.
Keep in mind that what I'm telling you is for ENTRY only, NOT to be
sustained as entry is achieved. Pro spin controls for the 172 are yoke
full back, rudder full pro into, and ailerons neutral. Make sure you
acheive this configuration as auto rotation commences.

--
Dudley Henriques

On Mar 17, 7:26 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Dan wrote:
On Mar 17, 6:38 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Dan wrote:
Anyone else have expereince with the C172E (1964)?
No matter what I did I could not get that bird to spin to the right.
Left spins take some work, and power helps (of course).
But right it just wallows and then steep spirals.
Dan Mc
Try accelerating the stall a bit just before reaching the 1g stall point .
Decelerate the airplane carrying just a bit of power into the stall,
then just before it would break naturally, apply aggressive pitch, as
the stall breaks, apply full pro-spin rudder. It should break a lot
cleaner and right into the spin; assuming normal rigging.

--
Dudley Henriques

So a sharper transition to full back pressure?

I tried entering a bit faster (80 MPH) to have enough energy, but no
dice.

As far as rigging -- good question. The right rudder authority seems
less than left. I thought it was left turning tendencies but may
simply be out of rig.

It spun to the right quite nicely from a cross control turn to the
left, but you would have to be a total nincompoop to let that happen
in that airplane -- full left rudder, full right aileron, and yoke all
the way back to the stop.

Dan Mc

Yes, the trick is an old one really. You "quickly" take the angle of
attack through CLmax instead of flattening out the transition. It's
quicker and a lot sharper a stall break. If you throw in the yaw just as
the stall breaks you should see some increased entry performance.
Actually, if you are REAL sharp and your timing is good, you can help
the entry by leaving the power in to aid the yaw with dynamic pressure
on the deflected rudder, and you can also use aileron into the spin
direction as an aid as the stall moves out toward the tips and the
ailerons still have some degree of input in roll.
Keep in mind that what I'm telling you is for ENTRY only, NOT to be
sustained as entry is achieved. Pro spin controls for the 172 are yoke
full back, rudder full pro into, and ailerons neutral. Make sure you
acheive this configuration as auto rotation commences.

--
Dudley Henriques

OK... that makes sense. Maintaining a spin required rudder into the
direction of the spin -- otherwise the airplane wanted to transition
to a spiral...

Didn't try aileron into the spin....

So Rolling Rock is close to you? You must be in my neighborhood!


Dan Mc

Dan wrote:
On Mar 17, 7:26 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Dan wrote:
On Mar 17, 6:38 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Dan wrote:
Anyone else have expereince with the C172E (1964)?
No matter what I did I could not get that bird to spin to the right.
Left spins take some work, and power helps (of course).
But right it just wallows and then steep spirals.
Dan Mc
Try accelerating the stall a bit just before reaching the 1g stall point .
Decelerate the airplane carrying just a bit of power into the stall,
then just before it would break naturally, apply aggressive pitch, as
the stall breaks, apply full pro-spin rudder. It should break a lot
cleaner and right into the spin; assuming normal rigging.
--
Dudley Henriques
So a sharper transition to full back pressure?
I tried entering a bit faster (80 MPH) to have enough energy, but no
dice.
As far as rigging -- good question. The right rudder authority seems
less than left. I thought it was left turning tendencies but may
simply be out of rig.
It spun to the right quite nicely from a cross control turn to the
left, but you would have to be a total nincompoop to let that happen
in that airplane -- full left rudder, full right aileron, and yoke all
the way back to the stop.
Dan Mc
Yes, the trick is an old one really. You "quickly" take the angle of
attack through CLmax instead of flattening out the transition. It's
quicker and a lot sharper a stall break. If you throw in the yaw just as
the stall breaks you should see some increased entry performance.
Actually, if you are REAL sharp and your timing is good, you can help
the entry by leaving the power in to aid the yaw with dynamic pressure
on the deflected rudder, and you can also use aileron into the spin
direction as an aid as the stall moves out toward the tips and the
ailerons still have some degree of input in roll.
Keep in mind that what I'm telling you is for ENTRY only, NOT to be
sustained as entry is achieved. Pro spin controls for the 172 are yoke
full back, rudder full pro into, and ailerons neutral. Make sure you
acheive this configuration as auto rotation commences.

--
Dudley Henriques

OK... that makes sense. Maintaining a spin required rudder into the
direction of the spin -- otherwise the airplane wanted to transition
to a spiral...

Didn't try aileron into the spin....

So Rolling Rock is close to you? You must be in my neighborhood!


Dan Mc
Pro-spin for your airplane is power idle, rudder full into, and yoke
full back. Aileron is an ENTRY option ONLY! Neutralize it as the auto
rotaton begins.

We're on the East Coast. You?

--
Dudley Henriques

On Mar 17, 3:19 pm, Dan wrote:
Anyone else have expereince with the C172E (1964)?

No matter what I did I could not get that bird to spin to the right.

Left spins take some work, and power helps (of course).

But right it just wallows and then steep spirals.

Dan Mc

172s are reluctant to spin anyway. They'll do it to the lft
readily enough if some power is used to get the speed lower and nose
higher just before stall, but to the right they'll sometimes just
rumble around into a spiral. The left wing stalls earlier due to the
rotating propeller blast striking the left root at a higher AOA, and
so trying to spin right just makes them both stall at the same time,
which won't encourage autorotation.

Dan

On Mar 17, 7:34 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Dan wrote:
On Mar 17, 7:26 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Dan wrote:
On Mar 17, 6:38 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Dan wrote:
Anyone else have expereince with the C172E (1964)?
No matter what I did I could not get that bird to spin to the right.
Left spins take some work, and power helps (of course).
But right it just wallows and then steep spirals.
Dan Mc
Try accelerating the stall a bit just before reaching the 1g stall point .
Decelerate the airplane carrying just a bit of power into the stall,
then just before it would break naturally, apply aggressive pitch, as
the stall breaks, apply full pro-spin rudder. It should break a lot
cleaner and right into the spin; assuming normal rigging.
--
Dudley Henriques
So a sharper transition to full back pressure?
I tried entering a bit faster (80 MPH) to have enough energy, but no
dice.
As far as rigging -- good question. The right rudder authority seems
less than left. I thought it was left turning tendencies but may
simply be out of rig.
It spun to the right quite nicely from a cross control turn to the
left, but you would have to be a total nincompoop to let that happen
in that airplane -- full left rudder, full right aileron, and yoke all
the way back to the stop.
Dan Mc
Yes, the trick is an old one really. You "quickly" take the angle of
attack through CLmax instead of flattening out the transition. It's
quicker and a lot sharper a stall break. If you throw in the yaw just as
the stall breaks you should see some increased entry performance.
Actually, if you are REAL sharp and your timing is good, you can help
the entry by leaving the power in to aid the yaw with dynamic pressure
on the deflected rudder, and you can also use aileron into the spin
direction as an aid as the stall moves out toward the tips and the
ailerons still have some degree of input in roll.
Keep in mind that what I'm telling you is for ENTRY only, NOT to be
sustained as entry is achieved. Pro spin controls for the 172 are yoke
full back, rudder full pro into, and ailerons neutral. Make sure you
acheive this configuration as auto rotation commences.

--
Dudley Henriques

OK... that makes sense. Maintaining a spin required rudder into the
direction of the spin -- otherwise the airplane wanted to transition
to a spiral...

Didn't try aileron into the spin....

So Rolling Rock is close to you? You must be in my neighborhood!

Dan Mc

Pro-spin for your airplane is power idle, rudder full into, and yoke
full back. Aileron is an ENTRY option ONLY! Neutralize it as the auto
rotaton begins.

We're on the East Coast. You?

--
Dudley Henriques

Western Pennsylvania, not far from the real, actual home of Rolling
Rock (Latrobe) and Arnold Palmer.

Dan Mc

On Mar 17, 7:34 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Dan wrote:
On Mar 17, 7:26 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Dan wrote:
On Mar 17, 6:38 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Dan wrote:
Anyone else have expereince with the C172E (1964)?
No matter what I did I could not get that bird to spin to the right.
Left spins take some work, and power helps (of course).
But right it just wallows and then steep spirals.
Dan Mc
Try accelerating the stall a bit just before reaching the 1g stall point .
Decelerate the airplane carrying just a bit of power into the stall,
then just before it would break naturally, apply aggressive pitch, as
the stall breaks, apply full pro-spin rudder. It should break a lot
cleaner and right into the spin; assuming normal rigging.
--
Dudley Henriques
So a sharper transition to full back pressure?
I tried entering a bit faster (80 MPH) to have enough energy, but no
dice.
As far as rigging -- good question. The right rudder authority seems
less than left. I thought it was left turning tendencies but may
simply be out of rig.
It spun to the right quite nicely from a cross control turn to the
left, but you would have to be a total nincompoop to let that happen
in that airplane -- full left rudder, full right aileron, and yoke all
the way back to the stop.
Dan Mc
Yes, the trick is an old one really. You "quickly" take the angle of
attack through CLmax instead of flattening out the transition. It's
quicker and a lot sharper a stall break. If you throw in the yaw just as
the stall breaks you should see some increased entry performance.
Actually, if you are REAL sharp and your timing is good, you can help
the entry by leaving the power in to aid the yaw with dynamic pressure
on the deflected rudder, and you can also use aileron into the spin
direction as an aid as the stall moves out toward the tips and the
ailerons still have some degree of input in roll.
Keep in mind that what I'm telling you is for ENTRY only, NOT to be
sustained as entry is achieved. Pro spin controls for the 172 are yoke
full back, rudder full pro into, and ailerons neutral. Make sure you
acheive this configuration as auto rotation commences.

--
Dudley Henriques

OK... that makes sense. Maintaining a spin required rudder into the
direction of the spin -- otherwise the airplane wanted to transition
to a spiral...

Didn't try aileron into the spin....

So Rolling Rock is close to you? You must be in my neighborhood!

Dan Mc

Pro-spin for your airplane is power idle, rudder full into, and yoke
full back. Aileron is an ENTRY option ONLY! Neutralize it as the auto
rotaton begins.

We're on the East Coast. You?

--
Dudley Henriques

Absolutely -- aileron into the turn ONLY for the entry..then neutral!

Pro direction rudder helps keep it in an actual spin, otherwise it
slides out.

Dan Mc