In wave, in blue hole at cloud level, hole closes, in IMC, then what?

Do you know why the 31 pilot did not use the engine to fly to an area where the cloudbase was higher?

I am not sure it won't be the same again! I think the UK agent bought the wreckage and is rebuilding it.

You mention a misleading AH. i have read many accident reports were the last thing a pilot did before losing the aircraft was to cage the gryo, thinking that somehow the instrument was bad when in fact the aircraft was departing. In the clouds is not time to think your gyro is not working. If it is showing an attitude I would trust it.



My plan, tested in clear and admittedly smooth air, has been to open the air brakes and take hands and feet off if either the A/H shows obvious signs of failing or the airspeed increases over a certain level (I plan on 75 knots). A misleading A/H would be far worse than an obviously failed one, because you would be in worse shape before taking this action. However I recently talked to someone who had the A/H in his LX computer fail while in cloud. He kept things steady while rebooting the LX and all was well. I think I would stick to the open the air brakes plan.

To answer (tongue in cheek) the original question......

"Stick your head between your knees, kiss your a$$ goodbye.......".

Unintended flight into IMC with a VFR aircraft (yes, basically regardless of type) is to be AVOIDED at all costs.
If it happens (you save it), "maybe" you'll save it and have a good story for the "I learned that from hanger flying" thread.........
You may also get to "test/wish you" had a chute if it comes out wrong. :-(

Weather is rather dynamic, if you're flying and it goes "bad", it's not a good place to be.

On Sunday, April 12, 2015 at 10:48:40 AM UTC-4, wrote:
VNE with altitude.

If your VNE changes with altitude, it will be listed in the glider's Manual, read it and quit trying to guess.

Todd Smith
3S

"The IAS at which never exceed speed (VNE) is reached
decreases with altitude. The glider flight manual (GFM)
should include a table, such as the one shown in Figure 4-11,
that details how VNE should be reduced with altitude. These
figures vary from glider to glider; therefore, pilots should
always refer to the manual specific to the glider they are flying,
which should show a chart similar to the one in Figure 4-11."

*should*

Source: Glider Flying Handbook, Page 4-3

http://www.faa.gov/regulations_polic...apter%2010.pdf

To put the hangar talk into perspective, here is a quote from John Good:

"Wave flying is dangerous - one of the more dangerous activities that humans voluntarily engage in. With experience and care, the risks can be lowered, but not eliminated. Some aspects of safety in wave and mountain flying are presented here, but this is far from a
complete discussion, and some of this material is not aimed at beginners. Pilots should strive to develop the judgment that will keep them safe, understanding that mountains such as these can present conditions in which even excellent aircraft and skilled pilots cannot safely fly."


From "Flying Mt. Washington Area Wave from Gorham, NH"
Version 11.1, October, 2011 - copyright by John F. Good

http://mtwashingtonsoaring.org/Docum...tonsoaring.org

Mt. Washington poses some unique challenges (like the downwind wilderness) but it shares commonalities with other wave flying sites.

No one has mentioned it, but the ASW-27 that came apart was experimental. Am I correct that experimental aircraft are not to be flown over congested areas? Wonder if there will be any FAA fall out from this?

On Wednesday, 8 April 2015 17:08:36 UTC+3, son_of_flubber wrote:
So I'm flying in a blue hole in wave lift of 5 m/s, trimmed to 50 knots, in clear air with a cloud layer upwind and downwind, cloud top above and cloud base below. Suddenly I find myself in IMC. What are my options?

My glider is capable of benign spiral. I open the spoilers, (already trimmed to 50 knots) and let go of stick and rudder. Then I mentally rehearse my bail out procedure and expect to come out below the cloud (or possibly above). It seems like I should decisively and without hesitation initiate the spiral ASAP, while the glider is still relatively level and at cruising airspeed.

Suggestions?

Standard procedure in cloud flying instruction for loss of control is to open airbrakes immediately. And you will loose control very soon, so better to pop them open right away, well before VNE. I would probably set flaps as much positive as possible (landing flaps being best option) if airspeed permits. Idea is to restrict your speed as much as possible during those loops, spirals and all that scary stuff your glider will do inside cloud. And it will, believe me, there is no such thing as bening uncontrolled manouver in cloud if you are flying modern glider.

Intentional cloud flying with artificial horizon that comes with modern variometer is plain suicidal. They are not designed to be as rugged as imc flying requires. Simple disturbance in GPS reception is enough to make your AH to reboot in cloud.

On Monday, 13 April 2015 08:36:57 UTC+2, krasw wrote:
Intentional cloud flying with artificial horizon that comes with modern variometer is plain suicidal. They are not designed to be as rugged as imc flying requires. Simple disturbance in GPS reception is enough to make your AH to reboot in cloud.

That's a rather stupid implementation. Do you know which units display this behaviour?
From what I've read the LXNav S8/S80 AHRS doesn't need a GPS source and relies on it's inertial platform to provide an attitude display (without heading unless you add the compass module). I don't have one to confirm though.

The attitude app running on my Samsung N7100 (Note 2) doesn't reboot when it loses a GPS lock. In fact it doesn't use GPS at all but rather an inertial platform based on the 3-axis accelerometer, 3-axis gyroscope and 3-axis magnetometer built into the phone. I don't rely on it when flying but it's surprisingly accurate and reliable and doesn't display any drift or even tumbling at odd attitudes.

I find it really hard to believe that a mass produced consumer smartphone can turn out to be more reliable than an instrument specifically created for the aviation market.

Please name and shame the instruments you're referring to so that I can avoid them.

On Monday, 13 April 2015 11:11:08 UTC+3, Surge wrote:
On Monday, 13 April 2015 08:36:57 UTC+2, krasw wrote:
Intentional cloud flying with artificial horizon that comes with modern variometer is plain suicidal. They are not designed to be as rugged as imc flying requires. Simple disturbance in GPS reception is enough to make your AH to reboot in cloud.

That's a rather stupid implementation. Do you know which units display this behaviour?
From what I've read the LXNav S8/S80 AHRS doesn't need a GPS source and relies on it's inertial platform to provide an attitude display (without heading unless you add the compass module). I don't have one to confirm though..

The attitude app running on my Samsung N7100 (Note 2) doesn't reboot when it loses a GPS lock. In fact it doesn't use GPS at all but rather an inertial platform based on the 3-axis accelerometer, 3-axis gyroscope and 3-axis magnetometer built into the phone. I don't rely on it when flying but it's surprisingly accurate and reliable and doesn't display any drift or even tumbling at odd attitudes.

I find it really hard to believe that a mass produced consumer smartphone can turn out to be more reliable than an instrument specifically created for the aviation market.

Please name and shame the instruments you're referring to so that I can avoid them.

I think it is safe to assume that most "inertial platform" implementations use as many data sources as possible, including gps. Not sure how stupid or not that is. I have no need to name or shame anyone as all manufacturers strictly forbid imc flying with their instruments *only*, for a good reason.

Smartphone apps I have tried are pretty useless if you are thermalling, but possibly better than nothing for level flight.

It takes surprisingly long time to comprehend that AH or gyro is failing by the way, you have contradictory indications but no knowledge which is correct. I now have a whole new unsterstanding how imc accidents can unfold.

There are apps at the Android store which provide attitude information.
I found one which acted as a heads up display (HUD) but stated that it
was *not* to be used for actual flight. I tried it in clear air and
found that above some speed, it ceased to function. Would have been
nice to have it running on my Streak...

On 4/13/2015 2:11 AM, Surge wrote:
On Monday, 13 April 2015 08:36:57 UTC+2, krasw wrote:
Intentional cloud flying with artificial horizon that comes with modern variometer is plain suicidal. They are not designed to be as rugged as imc flying requires. Simple disturbance in GPS reception is enough to make your AH to reboot in cloud.
That's a rather stupid implementation. Do you know which units display this behaviour?
From what I've read the LXNav S8/S80 AHRS doesn't need a GPS source and relies on it's inertial platform to provide an attitude display (without heading unless you add the compass module). I don't have one to confirm though.

The attitude app running on my Samsung N7100 (Note 2) doesn't reboot when it loses a GPS lock. In fact it doesn't use GPS at all but rather an inertial platform based on the 3-axis accelerometer, 3-axis gyroscope and 3-axis magnetometer built into the phone. I don't rely on it when flying but it's surprisingly accurate and reliable and doesn't display any drift or even tumbling at odd attitudes.

I find it really hard to believe that a mass produced consumer smartphone can turn out to be more reliable than an instrument specifically created for the aviation market.

Please name and shame the instruments you're referring to so that I can avoid them.

--
Dan Marotta