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#221
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IFR use of handheld GPS
"Sam Spade" wrote in message news:OlJ8g.176145$bm6.85233@fed1read04... I never said it governs tracking of airways. It does govern the ground facilities you must use to track the airway; i.e., from "VOR ABC to VOR DEF." Apparently, you don't understand that. Apparently you don't understand those ground facilities are also outside the subject of discussion. That is your statement of opinion, which is not shared by everyone, including those at the FAA who control this stuff. Saying there are no regulations that prohibit the use of a non-certified GPS in IFR flight is a statement of fact, not of opinion. That there are some in the FAA that don't understand that fact should surprise nobody. |
#222
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IFR use of handheld GPS
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Sam Spade" wrote in message news:OlJ8g.176145$bm6.85233@fed1read04... I never said it governs tracking of airways. It does govern the ground facilities you must use to track the airway; i.e., from "VOR ABC to VOR DEF." Apparently, you don't understand that. Apparently you don't understand those ground facilities are also outside the subject of discussion. That is your statement of opinion, which is not shared by everyone, including those at the FAA who control this stuff. Saying there are no regulations that prohibit the use of a non-certified GPS in IFR flight is a statement of fact, not of opinion. That there are some in the FAA that don't understand that fact should surprise nobody. It is your opinion. |
#223
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IFR use of handheld GPS
"Sam Spade" wrote in message news:hrM8g.176161$bm6.112176@fed1read04... It is your opinion. Clearly you cannot differentiate fact from opinion. |
#224
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IFR use of handheld GPS
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Sam Spade" wrote in message news:hrM8g.176161$bm6.112176@fed1read04... It is your opinion. Clearly you cannot differentiate fact from opinion. Oh, I think it is you who cannot. Do you have any experience with civil legal proceedings? Such as, findings of facts, and conclusions of law. Clearly, your assertions of fact do not rise to the level of civil adjudication by a court of compentent jurisdiction, although I will never be able to convince you of that FACT. |
#225
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IFR use of handheld GPS
Ok. We agree that Part 95 does not govern tracking airways.
It also does not govern the ground facitilities that must be used to track airways. The only thing Part 95 does is refer to the airways and that is only to allow the use of GPS in areas when it is impossible to use VORs to track the airways. I'm still missing the part where a regulation requires me to use a certified GPS. As a few examples of clarity, 91.181 requires that, during IFR flight, I fly (a) on a airway or (b) a straight line to a fix. Note that it does not stipulate the equipment I must use to accomplish that. 91.171 prohibits IFR navigation by reference to a VOR receiver unless it has been checked. 91.205 requires that I have the appropriate equipment for the ground facilities to be used. The point that many people are trying to make in this discussion is that there is no similarly explicit statement about using certified GPS receivers for enroute navigation. You have stated that this is only an opinion. Actually, it is not an opinion. It is an observation that has yet to be refuted. Please understand that I am only debating the explicit regulation to use certified GPS receivers. It is fact only in that no one has been able to cite a regulation to the contrary. You have stated an opinion that GPS receivers must be certified for IFR enroute navigation but you have not cited a regulation to back up that opinion. -- ------------------------------- Travis Lake N3094P PWK "Sam Spade" wrote in message news:OlJ8g.176145$bm6.85233@fed1read04... Travis Marlatte wrote: As you say, part 95 governs IFR altitudes - not tracking airways. It does not define airways nor how to track them. It defines altitudes to be used when on and off airways. I never said it governs tracking of airways. It does govern the ground facilities you must use to track the airway; i.e., from "VOR ABC to VOR DEF." Apparently, you don't understand that. Part 95 is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. There are no regulations that prohibit the use of a non-certified GPS in IFR flight. That is your statement of opinion, which is not shared by everyone, including those at the FAA who control this stuff. |
#226
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IFR use of handheld GPS
"Sam Spade" wrote in message news:z_Q8g.176186$bm6.58825@fed1read04... Oh, I think it is you who cannot. I'm sure you do. You're wrong. |
#227
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IFR use of handheld GPS
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Sam Spade" wrote in message news:z_Q8g.176186$bm6.58825@fed1read04... Oh, I think it is you who cannot. I'm sure you do. You're wrong. Interesting thast you chose to ignore the bulk of my post. |
#228
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IFR use of handheld GPS
Travis Marlatte wrote:
Ok. We agree that Part 95 does not govern tracking airways. It also does not govern the ground facitilities that must be used to track airways. The only thing Part 95 does is refer to the airways and that is only to allow the use of GPS in areas when it is impossible to use VORs to track the airways. That is simply incorrect. Airways are described in great detail on individual Forms 8260.16, which include the VOR stations, the IFR altitudes, and the COPs. Each such amendment to an airway is an amendment to Part 95, which is incorporated into the regulation through the federal register by reference. This is virtually the same rule-making procedure used to enact and amend instrument approach procedures under Part 95. I'm still missing the part where a regulation requires me to use a certified GPS. As a few examples of clarity, 91.181 requires that, during IFR flight, I fly (a) on a airway or (b) a straight line to a fix. Note that it does not stipulate the equipment I must use to accomplish that. 91.171 prohibits IFR navigation by reference to a VOR receiver unless it has been checked. 91.205 requires that I have the appropriate equipment for the ground facilities to be used. And, what constitutes a VOR (Victor) Airway. The point that many people are trying to make in this discussion is that there is no similarly explicit statement about using certified GPS receivers for enroute navigation. You have stated that this is only an opinion. Actually, it is not an opinion. It is an observation that has yet to be refuted. Please understand that I am only debating the explicit regulation to use certified GPS receivers. It is fact only in that no one has been able to cite a regulation to the contrary. You have stated an opinion that GPS receivers must be certified for IFR enroute navigation but you have not cited a regulation to back up that opinion. It is a body of TSO, ACs, and FAA policy postions. The FAA would never feel the need to issue a regulation that states VFR GPS cannot be used for IFR navigation. They see no reason for it, since the body of directives make it clear that only IFR certified avionics can be used for IFR operations. |
#229
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IFR use of handheld GPS
Sam Spade wrote:
Airways are described in great detail on individual Forms 8260.16, Are the forms 8260.16 available to the public somewhere? Thanks, Dave |
#230
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IFR use of handheld GPS
Google is your friend!
Damn, that's empowering to say!! Karl ATP CFI EC "Curator" N185KG "Dave Butler" wrote in message news:1147439954.376983@sj-nntpcache-5... Sam Spade wrote: Airways are described in great detail on individual Forms 8260.16, Are the forms 8260.16 available to the public somewhere? Thanks, Dave |
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