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#11
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Teacherjh wrote:
For us little guys, ANY ICE AT ALL is forbidden. (unless the aircraft is certified for known ice, which very few spam cans are). Forbidden by what? snip (though I can't find a specific rule, it would certainly be classified as "careless and reckless" if it led to an incident - it might be in the certification rules for aircraft, snip It's usually the aircraft's type certificate that specifies whether it can be flown in ice, but older types don't have any statement about ice in the type certificate. Remove SHIRT to reply directly. Dave |
#12
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The FARs come before the laws of physics?
Sometimes the FAA will smite you first. Other times they don't get there in time, and you are left facing teh Grand Canonical Ensemble. What law, other than a natural law, would such an action violate? The type certificate. Jose -- (for Email, make the obvious changes in my address) |
#13
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"Teacherjh" wrote in message ... The type certificate. I see. So if a type certificate does not mention icing at all then there is no prohibition against flight into known icing conditions in that aircraft, other than, of course, the laws of physics? |
#14
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So if a type certificate does not mention icing at all then there is no prohibition against flight into known icing conditions in that aircraft, other than, of course, the laws of physics? Careless and reckless. Jose -- (for Email, make the obvious changes in my address) |
#15
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O. Sami Saydjari wrote:
I KNOW this is a big can of worms, but I have a specific question relating to sub-paragraphs b.1 and b.2 of this regulation regarinding operating in icing conditions. It says "...no pilot may fly-- (1) Under IFR into konwn or forecast moderate icing conditions; or (2) Under VFR into known light or moderate icing conditions..." This seems odd. Why do you suppose the standards are different for IFR and VFR ("moderate" vs "light or moderate)? Icing affects a pilots ability to control the aircraft, so I do not see how instrument training allows one to venture into worse conditions. Well, I make no claim to understand that minds of the FAR writers, but here's my opinion. It is more likely to inadvertantly encounter icing when flying IFR in IMC. Pretty hard to accumulate ice if you aren't flying in visible moisture (clouds or precip), so if you are VFR you really have no excuse to get into even light icing conditions. However, if you are flying legally in the clouds, it is easy to get into light conditions inadvertantly. Wouldn't make a lot of sense to try to bust every IFR pilot who strays into light icing. However, you raise a good question and if you find an official answer, please post it here. So, if there is an airmet for "light icing", then it is legal for an IFR pilot to enter the clouds (of course, on a valid IFR flight plan)? I haven't studied the FARs on this in some time, so I can't say if the exerpt you quoted above is all that applies, however, if it is, then it appears that this would be legal. What perectnage of the time, during winter, do icing forecasts get issued whenever there are IFR conditions? In other words, in y'alls experience, if you get 100 briefings during the winter time that include IFR conditions, what perecntage of those will also have icing forecast. My intuition says that it will be upwards of 90-100% (I am a relatively new IFR pilot, so I do not have the experience base to say...looking for other opinions here). If it is close to 100%, should I just hang up my IFR certificate from Sept to May (I live in Wisconsin, so we only have about 30 minutes of summer here per year ). When I was flying IFR regularly (5 years ago), in the northeast you could count on a forecast for icing almost every day from October through April. Unless it was severe clear and below zero, you had an icing forecast somewhere at some level. If you didn't fly whenever there was forecast icing, you wouldn't fly in the northeast for at least four months of the year and probably six. Matt |
#16
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Ron Natalie wrote:
"O. Sami Saydjari" wrote in message ... This seems odd. Why do you suppose the standards are different for IFR and VFR ("moderate" vs "light or moderate)? Icing affects a pilots ability to control the aircraft, so I do not see how instrument training allows one to venture into worse conditions. VFR pilots are less likely to fly (legally) in to precip or clouds. You got to have mositure to form ice. So, if there is an airmet for "light icing", then it is legal for an IFR pilot to enter the clouds (of course, on a valid IFR flight plan)? It's illegal for him to operate IFR period. Really? Even if you don't fly in the clouds? Matt |
#17
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"Teacherjh" wrote in message ... Careless and reckless. I believe you're referring to FAR 91.13, which is Careless OR Reckless Operation, not careless AND reckless. I own the aircraft and fly it solo, how does flying it into known icing conditions endanger the life or property of another? |
#18
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"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message .net... | | "Teacherjh" wrote in message | ... | | This applies to large and turbine powered aircraft. | | For us little guys, ANY ICE AT ALL is forbidden. (unless the aircraft is | certified for known ice, which very few spam cans are). | | | Forbidden by what? The published operating limitations of the aircraft, which must be adhered to in accordance with the type certificate and the general prohibition against reckless and dangerous operation. Most modern light planes have specific provisions in their type certificates prohibiting flight into known icing conditions. Additionally, commercial operators flying under part 135 are prohibited from flying into known icing conditions unless the aircraft is certified for it. |
#19
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"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message ... It's illegal for him to operate IFR period. Really? Even if you don't fly in the clouds? If he is in a case where that reg applies to him, yes. The rules don't say "in clouds" they say Instrument Flight Rules. |
#20
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"C J Campbell" wrote in message ... The published operating limitations of the aircraft, which must be adhered to in accordance with the type certificate and the general prohibition against reckless and dangerous operation. Most modern light planes have specific provisions in their type certificates prohibiting flight into known icing conditions. What forbids those light planes that have no such specific provisions in their type certificates from flying into known icing conditions? |
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