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#51
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IFR use of handheld GPS
In navigator training back when we actually used a sextant, whenever
our mission called for legs using celestial navigation ATC would give us a celnav clearance. This allowed us much more airspace than a "direct" clearance as celestial nav was less precise than other methods of navigation. On missions which required students to use only ded reckoning, the pilot would also ask ATC for a celnav clearance in order to have the freedom to manuever (i.e. wander) off the direct line to the next turnpoint. Thus, when ATC sends you direct to a point, they expect you to be pretty darn close to staying on the direct course to that point. If you decide that your going to use a watch and compass (dr) or pull out a sextant and you wander significantly off that straight line and stray into restricted airspace--guess who's going to get violated? |
#52
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IFR use of handheld GPS
You are not allowed to use an IFR-certified GPS for en route (domestic airspace) in a non-radar environment except with the special Alaska provisions. Perhaps you meant to say you're not allowed to fly off-airway? If you really meant what you said, please explain / cite the rule. |
#53
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IFR use of handheld GPS
My caution applies primarily in the Western DMA. You are home free in the middle of the country above 4,000, or so, and 8,000, or so in the Eastern DMA. In the Western DMA there are airways a whole lot lower than areas between them. DMA? |
#54
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IFR use of handheld GPS
Newps,
By "the book" do you mean 7110.65R? http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/ATC/index.htm I was browsing this online last night and couldn't find the reference, but that's hardly surprising given that it's the first time I've ever looked at this tome. Any chance you could provide a link or reference? Many thanks, Tim. On Thu, 04 May 2006 16:01:11 -0600, Newps wrote: Tim Auckland wrote: Newps, If using a hand-held GPS as a significant IFR navigation tool is against the spirit of the FARs, surely the FAA could put an end to the practice very simply by strongly discouraging controllers from issuing Direct-To clearances to /A and /U aircraft It's already there, the controller simply needs to read the book. It doesn't appear to have done so, even though the debate has been going on since at least 1998. It's like anything else in the FAA, they don't care until you wreck something. Then the FAA will buy part or all of your airplane when you sue. |
#55
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IFR use of handheld GPS
Sam Spade wrote: They is the US taxpayer. I cannot be sued. You said previously "they don't care until you wreck something." I took that to mean the FAA, given the context. The taxpayers aren't sued in any case; it's the government. Right, it wasn't your money to start with. |
#56
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IFR use of handheld GPS
Tim Auckland wrote: Newps, By "the book" do you mean 7110.65R? http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/ATC/index.htm I was browsing this online last night and couldn't find the reference, but that's hardly surprising given that it's the first time I've ever looked at this tome. It's a ridiculous piece of work as you saw. If you could clear anybody direct an equipment suffix would be unnecessary. It's also a shared thing. I have my rules, you have yours. You have to be able to fly what you file. You'd be suprised to find out how many operators file a direct clearance as a /A or /Q and then say they need a vector. Even when it is legal because they would be within the service volume. |
#57
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IFR use of handheld GPS
You'd be suprised to find out how many operators file a direct clearance as a /A or /Q and then say they need a vector.
Well, one reason for that (at least on the East coast) is that it doesn't really matter what you file, you will get something different. So why bother figuring out a routing you won't use anyway. Jose -- The price of freedom is... well... freedom. for Email, make the obvious change in the address. |
#58
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IFR use of handheld GPS
Jose wrote: You'd be suprised to find out how many operators file a direct clearance as a /A or /Q and then say they need a vector. Well, one reason for that (at least on the East coast) is that it doesn't really matter what you file, you will get something different. So why bother figuring out a routing you won't use anyway. NORDO |
#59
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IFR use of handheld GPS
Well, one reason for that (at least on the East coast) is that it doesn't really matter what you file, you will get something different. So why bother figuring out a routing you won't use anyway.
NORDO That's not a reason. You will get a clearance, and you need to reject a clearance you can't fly. But figuring out a route you won't get doesn't address the route you -do- get. Jose -- The price of freedom is... well... freedom. for Email, make the obvious change in the address. |
#60
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IFR use of handheld GPS
Dave Butler wrote:
My caution applies primarily in the Western DMA. You are home free in the middle of the country above 4,000, or so, and 8,000, or so in the Eastern DMA. In the Western DMA there are airways a whole lot lower than areas between them. DMA? Designated Mountainous Area |
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