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#1
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"Stand Alone" Boxes (Garmin 430) - Sole means of navigation - legal?
Probably this has been answered in this forum previously, but I can't find
it. Sorry. I recently got into a friendly discussion with a knowledgable CFII who said a Garmin 430 could not be legally used as "sole means of navigation". Looking back, I think what he means is that "GPS" (even IFR certified units) can not be used as sole means. Since the Garmin 430 contains not only TSO'd GPS but also VOR, LOC, GS, etc., my position is that this unit (without any other navigation equipment on board) is legal as a "stand alone" for use en route, terminal, and approach . (I know charts are still necessary.) Please advise. The following came off the Garmin web site: ****************** GPS: TSO C129a, Class A1 (en route, terminal, and approach) VOR: TSO C40c LOC: TSO C36e GS: TSO C34e VHF COM: TSO C37d, Class 4 and 6 (transmit) and TSO C38d, Class C and E (receiver) The GNS 430 is the most versatile panel-mounted product GARMIN has produced to date. It combines GPS navigation, VHF communication, and moving map graphics on a big color display. This "all in one box" 12-channel unit offers IFR GPS, ILS, VOR, LOC and glideslope capability in a single, space-saving package ************************** |
#2
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I don't believe that is right. I think when they refer to "sole means
of navigation" they mean that you need to have other means of navigation (separate NAV receiver). Think about it from a safety point of view, forgat the legal requirements for a moment. If you were in the soup and your Garmin died, what would you do? I would never trust one instrument. The all-in-one feature of advanced GPS units is nice, but you could lose the whole thing. -Dave PP-ASEL-IA |
#3
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Probably this has been answered in this forum previously, but I can't find
it. Sorry. I recently got into a friendly discussion with a knowledgable CFII who said a Garmin 430 could not be legally used as "sole means of navigation". Looking back, I think what he means is that "GPS" (even IFR certified units) can not be used as sole means. Since the Garmin 430 contains not only TSO'd GPS but also VOR, LOC, GS, etc., my position is that this unit (without any other navigation equipment on board) is legal as a "stand alone" for use en route, terminal, and approach . (I know charts are still necessary.) Please advise. I would suggest finding another CFII who knows the TSO's. Absurd for someone who is supposed to know material to make a statement like that. This is the kind of CFII who insists that DME is required when flying above FL240, and the a VOR receiver check is required 30 days prior to doing an ILS or localizer approach while on an IFR clearance. Ridiculous. paul k. sanchez, cfii-mei on eagles’ wings 2011 south perimeter road, suite g fort lauderdale, florida 33309-7135 305-389-1742 wireless 954-776-0527 fax 954-965-8329 home/fax |
#4
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On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:54:37 GMT, "Richard" wrote:
The GNS 430 is the most versatile panel-mounted product GARMIN has produced to date. It combines GPS navigation, VHF communication, and moving map graphics on a big color display. This "all in one box" 12-channel unit offers IFR GPS, ILS, VOR, LOC and glideslope capability in a single, space-saving package The GNS430 box with an external CDI is legal as the sole means of navigation. Even if the GPS fails you still have a VOR which is legal as the sole means of navigation. As for backup a single GNS430 is no worse than a single VOR which is also legal for IFR navigation. |
#5
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Dave Pascoe KM3T wrote
Generally speaking, your entire post is incorrect. I don't believe that is right. I think when they refer to "sole means of navigation" they mean that you need to have other means of navigation (separate NAV receiver). A "means" of navigation refers to a "system" of navigation, not the devices used to accomplish that means. ADF,VOR,GPS are means, a King VOR receiver is a device to accomplish a means of navigation. If you were in the soup and your Garmin died, what would you do? I would never trust one instrument. Many parts of the world still rely on the NDB/ADF system for navigation. What would one do if that one ADF receiver fails? Airliners navigated across the ocean for years using only one LORAN A receiver. Bob Moore ATP CFII |
#6
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"Richard" wrote in message t... Looking back, I think what he means is that "GPS" (even IFR certified units) can not be used as sole means. That is more-or-less true. If you're going to use the GPS to fly an approach you're required to be able to get into an alternate without it. Since the Garmin 430 contains not only TSO'd GPS but also VOR, LOC, GS, etc., my position is that this unit (without any other navigation equipment on board) is legal as a "stand alone" for use en route, terminal, and approach Yep. As a matter of fact, many new aircraft are delivered with only 430/530's as nav equipement. . (I know charts are still necessary.) Charts are never strictly required for us small fry. As a practical matter, you need them, but only perverse misinterpretations of the regulations require their carriage. |
#7
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"Dave Pascoe KM3T" wrote in message ... I don't believe that is right. I think when they refer to "sole means of navigation" they mean that you need to have other means of navigation (separate NAV receiver). Hmmm.... That would mean that IFR flight with a single NAV receiver is illegal. Think about it from a safety point of view, forgat the legal requirements for a moment. If you were in the soup and your Garmin died, what would you do? I would never trust one instrument. The all-in-one feature of advanced GPS units is nice, but you could lose the whole thing. Do you trust one electrical system to power all of your NAV gear? |
#8
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"Richard" wrote in message t... Probably this has been answered in this forum previously, but I can't find it. Sorry. I recently got into a friendly discussion with a knowledgable CFII who said a Garmin 430 could not be legally used as "sole means of navigation". Looking back, I think what he means is that "GPS" (even IFR certified units) can not be used as sole means. Since the Garmin 430 contains not only TSO'd GPS but also VOR, LOC, GS, etc., my position is that this unit (without any other navigation equipment on board) is legal as a "stand alone" for use en route, terminal, and approach . (I know charts are still necessary.) Please advise. The pressure altitude input and operator input baro correction, such as the new UPSAT unit, will be a requirement for "sole means". John P. Tarver, MS/PE |
#9
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GPS: TSO C129a, Class A1 (en route, terminal, and approach) Yeah, your guess that he was referring to just the GPS portion is correct. I've read about this "sole source" stuff in a number of places. A non-WAAS reciever, as the 430s currently are, cannot be used as "sole source" for anything except GPS approaches. Say, for instance, that you're cleared along an airway. If so, you have to have a working VOR reciever available and the VORs that define that airway have to be operational (its in AIM 1-1-21). But, as you say, the 430 has a VOR reciever, so you're okay (the 400, however, doesn't; it is just a GPS). Maybe that's why airways aren't in the 430's database. Now, if you don't intend on ever using VORs, you don't need a VOR reciever, right? At least not outside of Class B airspace. In fact where does it say that you need anything more than a wet compass and a clock? And, if you can be legal with just a compass and a clock, certainly you can't become illegal if you add an IFR GPS, right? So what the hell does it mean, this "sole source" thing anyway? Peter |
#10
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"Fred E. Pate" wrote in message ... GPS: TSO C129a, Class A1 (en route, terminal, and approach) Yeah, your guess that he was referring to just the GPS portion is correct. I've read about this "sole source" stuff in a number of places. A non-WAAS reciever, as the 430s currently are, cannot be used as "sole source" for anything except GPS approaches. No, a 430 does not have accurate enough an altitude datum to be sole means. Altitude is the first portion of WAAS to turn out to be a bust. |
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