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#11
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Spins
An airplane that is spun
regularly will definitely go through some gyros unless they're designed for it. Bertie- And you know I once wondered why my instructor had so many old gyros sitting around on her bookshelves. There were like four or five of them, just sitting there. And three months ago I found it racked in the Aerobat needing repairs. I never asked ... Heh. |
#12
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Spins
Ron Wanttaja wrote in
: On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 03:54:53 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip wrote: wrote in news:6d564a7c-8f92-45c2-baae- : Does anyone know why the FAA ****e-canned the spin recovery demonstration requirement in the PTS? Was it fear of litigation (since a spin might lead to a crash, after all)? No, it was because the figured they were losing more in spin training than they were in accidental spins. IIRC, Canada still requires spin training, but the US and Canadian accident rate due to spins is about the same. They might have fewer accidental spins, but the accidents during training make up for it, like Bertie says. Nowadays, though, you almost never hear of someone getting into an accidental spin at 3,000 feet and spinning all the way to the ground. Most spin accidents occur in the traffic pattern, especially the base-to-final turn. Often, recovery isn't possible. Hence, the FAA emphasizes how to AVOID spins, instead of recovering from them. I got into an accidental spin the first time I carried a passenger after I got my Private. I had had an hours' worth of spin/acrobatic training months earlier. But what still impresses me today, nearly forty years later, is how quickly that Citabria *bit* when it was mishandled. The spins I had performed during training were all pull-the-power-off, nose up, gradually slow, kick the rudder when it stalls, and watch the nose majestically drop down and start rotating. This spin entry was different. There I was, about a seventy-degree left bank, pulling hard on the stick to impress my buddy in the back seat, and WHAM. Ol' N1660G snapped to the right, went inverted, and tucked into a whirling dervish of an upright spin. Stick forward, opposite rudder, haul back on the stick, feel my back soak instantly with sweat, and hear my buddy ask in a shaky voice if I really, TRULY knew what I was doing.... The really scary thing? I routinely had been performing that same manuever...IN THE TRAFFIC PATTERN. The difference was a further-aft CG and perhaps a slightly more-enthusiastic pull. I quit doing that.... Good idea! I do remember the Citabria spinning relatively easily, but nothing untoward. It was entirely predictable once you knew what made it tick. They have an unhealthy spin accident history compared to modern airplanes, of course. An awful lot of realtively easily spinnable airplanes do end up spinning in accidentally. No good reason for it except the pilots simply cnnot be proficient in them. One thing worth mentioning regarding spins is that an awful lot occur during engine failures and the pilot forgets rule number one. Aviate. They start messing around looking for cab heat or fuel selectos and don't pay enough attention to the attitude. Better to fly into a barn than to allow the airplane to spin in. Bertie |
#13
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Spins
One thing worth mentioning regarding spins is that an awful lot occur
during engine failures and the pilot forgets rule number one. Aviate. They start messing around looking for cab heat or fuel selectos and don't pay enough attention to the attitude. Better to fly into a barn than to allow the airplane to spin in. Bertie- I think that's right. On my last flight, with an instructor during a checkout, conversation with him made me drift all over the place course wise. Alone I'm always dead on. Same with altitude. Real slop. I guess that's one of the next rungs up: be able to nail that kind of thing while holding a conversation. Of course you're talking about something different. Have you ever had to put down with no power, by the way? |
#14
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Spins
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#16
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#17
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Spins
On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 06:09:12 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote: Ron Wanttaja wrote in : On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 03:54:53 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip wrote: wrote in news:6d564a7c-8f92-45c2-baae- : Does anyone know why the FAA ****e-canned the spin recovery demonstration requirement in the PTS? Was it fear of litigation (since a spin might lead to a crash, after all)? No, it was because the figured they were losing more in spin training than they were in accidental spins. IIRC, Canada still requires spin training, but the US and Canadian accident rate due to spins is about the same. They might have fewer accidental spins, but the accidents during training make up for it, like Bertie says. Nowadays, though, you almost never hear of someone getting into an accidental spin at 3,000 feet and spinning all the way to the ground. Most spin accidents occur in the traffic pattern, especially the base-to-final turn. Often, recovery isn't possible. Hence, the FAA emphasizes how to AVOID spins, instead of recovering from them. I got into an accidental spin the first time I carried a passenger after I got my Private. I had had an hours' worth of spin/acrobatic training months earlier. But what still impresses me today, nearly forty years later, is how quickly that Citabria *bit* when it was mishandled. The spins I had performed during training were all pull-the-power-off, nose up, gradually slow, kick the rudder when it stalls, and watch the nose majestically drop down and start rotating. This spin entry was different. There I was, about a seventy-degree left bank, pulling hard on the stick to impress my buddy in the back seat, and WHAM. Ol' N1660G snapped to the right, went inverted, and tucked into a whirling dervish of an upright spin. Stick forward, opposite rudder, haul back on the stick, feel my back soak instantly with sweat, and hear my buddy ask in a shaky voice if I really, TRULY knew what I was doing.... The really scary thing? I routinely had been performing that same manuever...IN THE TRAFFIC PATTERN. The difference was a further-aft CG and perhaps a slightly more-enthusiastic pull. I quit doing that.... Good idea! I do remember the Citabria spinning relatively easily, but nothing untoward. It was entirely predictable once you knew what made it tick. They have an unhealthy spin accident history compared to modern airplanes, of course. An awful lot of realtively easily spinnable airplanes do end up spinning in accidentally. No good reason for it except the pilots simply cnnot be proficient in them. One thing worth mentioning regarding spins is that an awful lot occur during engine failures and the pilot forgets rule number one. Aviate. They start messing around looking for cab heat or fuel selectos and don't pay enough attention to the attitude. Better to fly into a barn than to allow the airplane to spin in. Bertie Bertie Don't they say "fly it all the way to the crash site"? Big John |
#18
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Spins
Big John wrote in
: Don't they say "fly it all the way to the crash site" Never heard it put that way before, but yeah! Bertie |
#19
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#20
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Spins
Ron Wanttaja wrote in
: As I've aged, taking BFRs has become interesting. The CFIs get younger and younger, and some of them, well...they don't seem to understand the stuff they're supposed to be teaching. I agree, but to be fair, a lot of the old guys didn't know what they were talking about either. I've met a few. But it's true the direction has changed and not alwasys for the better. If I hear one more guy say "but that's how the pros do it".... Bertie |
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