How to get IFR Clearance enroute?

On Thu, 20 May 2004 11:46:33 GMT, Nathan Young
wrote:

On 19 May 2004 21:04:44 -0700, (Snowbird)
wrote:

(Stimbo) wrote in message . com...
What are the recommended procedures in obtaining an IFR clearance
enroute?

Ask .

More specifically: it helps ATC if your info is in the system. The
more info in the system, the more it helps.

Officially, the way to obtain an IFR clearance enroute is to contact
FSS in the air, file an IFR flight plan with them from some point
your route will cross (navaid, intersection, airport) to your
destination, request the correct facility and freq. to contact ATC
if you don't know.

When filing en route, what do you use as the departure airport? I
always give the actual departure airport even though I left there some
time ago. For my route of flight, I just use the closest VORs
remaining on the flightplan.

Seems like there has to be a better way.

Thanks for your answers everyone.

-Nathan

(Snowbird) wrote in message . com...
(Stimbo) wrote in message . com...
What are the recommended procedures in obtaining an IFR clearance
enroute?

Ask .

More specifically: it helps ATC if your info is in the system. The
more info in the system, the more it helps.

Officially, the way to obtain an IFR clearance enroute is to contact
FSS in the air, file an IFR flight plan with them from some point
your route will cross (navaid, intersection, airport) to your
destination, request the correct facility and freq. to contact ATC
if you don't know.


Side question, I have tried filing via Duats a flight plan beginning
at a navaid, and it won't let me because it tries to convert it to an
airport (e.g. XYZ Vor yields "Airport KXYZ does not exist"). Do you
know of some way around this?

Thanks,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

John Clonts wrote:

Side question, I have tried filing via Duats a flight plan beginning
at a navaid, and it won't let me because it tries to convert it to an
airport (e.g. XYZ Vor yields "Airport KXYZ does not exist"). Do you
know of some way around this?

Maybe it's the web front-end or whatever you are using to access DUAT. I just
tried using the telnet connection (telnet direct.duats.com) and successfully
entered a flight plan starting from HNN, which is a navaid, but there is no
airport with that identifier. Don't try to make sense of the routing, time,
etc., I just made up stuff to fill in all the fields:

1 Type of flight plan: IFR
2 Aircraft tail number: N1701D
3 Acft type/special equip: M20P/A
4 True airspeed: 150
5 Departure point: HNN
6 Departure time: (UTC) Thu May 20 20:00
7 Altitude: 60
8 Route of flight: RDU
9 Destination: RDU
10 Estimated time enroute: 0300
11 Remarks:
12 Fuel on board: 0500
13 Alternate destination(s):
14 Pilot's name: DAVID G BUTLER
Address: snip
Phone no.: snip
Aircraft home base: RDU
15 Number aboard: 1
16 Color of aircraft: TAN/BROWN
17 Dest contact name:
Phone no.:

Of course, I quit before actually -filing- the bogus plan.

Remove SHIRT to reply directly.
Dave

John Clonts wrote:

Side question, I have tried filing via Duats a flight plan beginning
at a navaid, and it won't let me because it tries to convert it to an
airport (e.g. XYZ Vor yields "Airport KXYZ does not exist"). Do you
know of some way around this?

Why would you do this? If you are on the ground, you'd file a composite
plan. If you are in the air, you presumably would use a radio to file.

Is it a bogus plan?

"Maule Driver" wrote in message
. com...
John Clonts wrote:

Side question, I have tried filing via Duats a flight plan beginning
at a navaid, and it won't let me because it tries to convert it to an
airport (e.g. XYZ Vor yields "Airport KXYZ does not exist"). Do you
know of some way around this?

Why would you do this? If you are on the ground, you'd file a composite
plan. If you are in the air, you presumably would use a radio to file.

The reason I would want to do this is for the same reason you would want a
composite plan, except that I don't want the interaction with FSS for the
VFR portion (for whatever reason).

But anyway, how exactly do you file a composite plan via duats? What do you
put into each field? The AIM says to check both IFR and VFR, but the duats
web front end uses a single-select box. Does telnet duats allow you to
check both? And where do you indicate which portion of the flight is which?
Freeform in the route box, or all in the remarks section? What exactly do
you put into the departure and destination boxes?

Thanks,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

"Dave Butler" wrote in message
...
John Clonts wrote:

Side question, I have tried filing via Duats a flight plan beginning
at a navaid, and it won't let me because it tries to convert it to an
airport (e.g. XYZ Vor yields "Airport KXYZ does not exist"). Do you
know of some way around this?

Maybe it's the web front-end or whatever you are using to access DUAT. I
just
tried using the telnet connection (telnet direct.duats.com) and
successfully
entered a flight plan starting from HNN, which is a navaid, but there is
no
airport with that identifier. Don't try to make sense of the routing,
time,
etc., I just made up stuff to fill in all the fields:
[Snip]

I think you're right. In fact the www.duats.com front end will accept the
flight plan FILING with navaid endpoints. It's just the "Flight Planner"
portion that requires airport endpoints. Which makes some sense.

Thanks,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

In article ,
(John Clonts) wrote:
Side question, I have tried filing via Duats a flight plan beginning
at a navaid, and it won't let me because it tries to convert it to an
airport (e.g. XYZ Vor yields "Airport KXYZ does not exist"). Do you
know of some way around this?

I've never had any problem. I just filed one from Carmel VOR to Sparta
VOR and it worked fine. The DUATS system came up with the remark on
it's own when I entered the route, saying, "Inserting lat/long
(4104/07432) for SAX to ensure ARTCC flight plan acceptance"

1 Type of flight plan: IFR
2 Aircraft tail number: N25629
3 Acft type/special equip: P28A/U
4 True airspeed: 130
5 Departure point: CMK
6 Departure time: (UTC) Thu May 20 23:30
7 Altitude: 60
8 Route of flight: 4104/07432
9 Destination: SAX
10 Estimated time enroute: 0200
11 Remarks: ..4104/07432.. IS SAX
12 Fuel on board: 0001
13 Alternate destination(s):
14 Pilot's name: ROY H SMITH
Address: 185 BEACH ST CITY ISLAND NY 10464
Phone no.: 718 885 3246
Aircraft home base: HPN
15 Number aboard: 1
16 Color of aircraft: WHITE/BLUE
17 Dest contact name:
Phone no.:

Adverse weather may exist for your briefing area.
Do you request these additional weather types? (Y/N) [N]
n

Enter field number(s) to correct, 'F' to file,'S' to save,
'FS' to file and save, 'R' for route wx briefing, or 'Q' to quit: f

Flight plan accepted by DynCorp IS DUAT service and will be filed
with ZBW on Thu May 20 22:21 (UTC).

Since I live where the sun always shines, I very seldom pick up my IFR
clearance on the ground. If I think I may have instrument weather I file
a composite flight plan with FSS prior to taking off. I always do this
when going to southern california, then when I get to the point where I
think I will need it, I call LA center and tell them I have one on file
and would like pick it up.

the couple of times where I had no IFR flight plan on file, I asked the
controller if he wanted me to file it with FSS or if he could fix me up, I
only do this when the radio is not busy, LA center has never had a problem
with this, some places might tho. I have also called FSS in the air and
filed with them then got back on with center and picked up the clearance
within seconds of filing.
Basically for me the situation dictates the method used. I always fly VFR
with flight following, when I am ready to get my clearance or if I need
to file, I tell center I need to switch over to fligh****ch to file a IFR
flight plan, sometimes they will fix me up, other times say ok, report
back when done. when I report back, they already know who and where I am,
no need for fixes or anytrhing else.

It just varies with the controller and how busy they are. the only times I
run into problem is in the phoenix area. So far every other place has been
great, especially SoCal, those guys/girls are very good at what they do.


Stimbo wrote:

What are the recommended procedures in obtaining an IFR clearance
enroute?

Flying from NJ to FL, I prefer to fly VFR, but undoubtedly I will
encounter IMC along the way. If I filed IFR in advance, it takes 1/2
hour or more to clear it through ATC. I obviously cannot wait 1/2
hour if I encounter IMC enroute.

Is there an "acceptable" procedure enroute if I start seeing a cumulus
build-up in front of me? Do I have to land and file? Do I file with
FSS and wait 1/2 hour before I open with Center? Can I file directly
with Center? Is this idea generally "frowned upon" by ATC?

I'm not necessarily looking for regulations as I am for practical
experiences that others have witnessed.

Thanks for any tips.

Stimbo
Medford, NJ

Stimbo wrote:

What are the recommended procedures in obtaining an IFR clearance
enroute?

Flying from NJ to FL, I prefer to fly VFR, but undoubtedly I will
encounter IMC along the way. If I filed IFR in advance, it takes 1/2
hour or more to clear it through ATC. I obviously cannot wait 1/2
hour if I encounter IMC enroute.

If you don't have a pretty good idea of where you are likely to encounter
IMC en route, you haven't done a very good job of flight planning. If you
have, then a composite flight plan works quite well.

) wrote:

If you don't have a pretty good idea of where you are likely to encounter
IMC en route, you haven't done a very good job of flight planning.

I disagree. Are you claiming that good flight planning will always provide
an accurate picture of future weather, especially for a trip that covers a
large number of hours and miles?

IMO, experienced weather forecasters sometimes get it wrong. When they do,
then there are going to be times when I, as the pilot who is planning the
flight with their products, will get it wrong.

Sure, one can simply cover all bases and always file IFR, but knowing how
to maximize the system seems to me to be the theme of this thread.

--
Peter