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#61
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Myth: 1 G barrel rolls are impossible.
Mxsmanic wrote in
: Robert M. Gary writes: You are assuming that the center of the roll makes a straight line, that is not the case. I'm making no such assumption. The reality is that there will always be an acceleration of 1 G imposed on the aircraft, No, there won't Bertie |
#62
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Myth: 1 G barrel rolls are impossible.
Dudley Henriques wrote in
news:2007061201260116807-dhenriques@rcncom: On 2007-06-12 01:11:04 -0400, Bertie the Bunyip said: Dudley Henriques wrote in news:2007061201080016807-dhenriques@rcncom: On 2007-06-12 00:14:09 -0400, Bertie the Bunyip said: Dudley Henriques wrote in news:2007061200011427544-dhenriques@rcncom: On 2007-06-11 23:50:07 -0400, Bertie the Bunyip said: Dudley Henriques wrote in news:200706112344078930-dhenriques@rcncom: On 2007-06-11 23:27:09 -0400, Bertie the Bunyip said: Dudley Henriques wrote; Got a few hours in the 650 way back when. Man, were those pedals wide apart!! :-)) Yes, good airplane for exploring aerobatics for th eneophyte, though. Unburstable, except for that prop thing. That's what got Rollie Cole. Shame. I miss the old days. I knew a lot of these people up close and personal.Counting the people we knew on the jet teams and the rest from the demonstration community, my wife and I have lost 32 friends through the years to low altitude acro Dudley Yes. i've lost a few as well. Somehow I managed to survie it though! I don't even like doing them at altitude so much these days. Except for smooth stuff. A freind of mine has just got a Yak 52 and is going nuts in it doing flat spins and what have you.. Gives me a headache just looking at him! That's weird. I have a friend in Pa. in the financial business who's into Yaks as well. (Gotta be careful saying this or PETA will be on my ass here :-) He has a 52 now and has just bought an 11. I believe he's trying to put a P&W in the 11 as we speak. Got another friend in Jersey who's LOA on Mig 21's. I think the Russians might be invading after all :-) I'd say we might have some mutual acquantences. Bertie Wouldn't surprise me a bit, but fear not if so. Should the Bunyip become known, his secret is safe and shall remain so. For your interest, the two people are Seligman and Sutton. No, don't know them myself, but I think one had A CJ 6 ferried from Cal a few years ago? Also, i reckon you also knew a Pinto/ F86 driver that bit off more than he could chew? Steve and I knew each other quite well many years ago when he was a partner in the old Valley Forge Airport in Pa. His partner had a French wife you had to see to believe. If I remember right (and who could forget her..her name was Yvette. :-) Yeah, met her. I worked for him a looong time ago. Steve had enough patents to choke a horse, including the paraglider and the Sentinel just to name two. He made a ton of money in his life. I take it you knew him as well. Yeah. Not real well, just worked for him. I don't really know what happened to the 86 the day he went in over in Jersey and I can't remember if the bird had an Orenda in it or a J47. Well, i know the FAA guy who had refused to sign him off for the airshow at 7MY. He only had the thing a couple of weeks and the guy who was supposed to sign him off refused him a display ticket for an airshow that weekend on the basis he would probably kill himself even just trying to land it there (it's less than 3,000 feet long) . He decided to land there and static display it and land the day before. didn't like the look of the approach and the engine quit on the go around. He was kind of famous for things like that. I saw him do a low pass in that Pinto and pull up vertically and disappear at that very same airport. He must have been doing 350 down the runway. Not too clever at a busy field like that. He must have run out of gas in that Stallion about a dozen times hauling jumpers and his sense around the ramp was legendary. He nearly blew over a Luscombe I had with that Pinto one day. Still , he was one clever boy. He had an RC Convair Pogo back in the '70s when nobody did that kind of thing. All little mechanical stabilising gyros in it he had made himself. And I can't imagine anyone else geting the 262 thing going like he did. BTW, that was the very first airplane I ever sat in when I was all of 5.. Bertie |
#63
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Myth: 1 G barrel rolls are impossible.
"Maxwell" wrote in
: "Dudley Henriques" wrote in message news:2007061201260116807-dhenriques@rcncom... On 2007-06-12 01:11:04 -0400, Bertie the Bunyip said: Dudley Henriques wrote in news:2007061201080016807-dhenriques@rcncom: On 2007-06-12 00:14:09 -0400, Bertie the Bunyip said: Dudley Henriques wrote in news:2007061200011427544-dhenriques@rcncom: On 2007-06-11 23:50:07 -0400, Bertie the Bunyip said: Dudley Henriques wrote in news:200706112344078930-dhenriques@rcncom: On 2007-06-11 23:27:09 -0400, Bertie the Bunyip said: You guys need to get a room. I haven't seen this much strokin' since Debbie did Dallas. Aww, you been huwt. Awww. Bertie |
#64
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Myth: 1 G barrel rolls are impossible.
Mxsmanic wrote in
: muff528 writes: Would it be possible to maintain 1g in the seat if the "corkscrew" were modified to a shape like an opening spiral, similar to a nautilus shell? No. Maybe slip to the right while pulling the nose up to induce acceleration of 1g. You would continue this maneuver, gradually flattening the spiral as gravity takes over the acceleration into the seat until you are again straight and level. You would never "climb" against gravity at any point since that would create an acceleration above 1g. Any time your vertical speed increases positively, you are above 1 G. Nope. Bertie |
#65
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Myth: 1 G barrel rolls are impossible.
Mxsmanic wrote in
: Bertie the Bunyip writes: You don't even know why you're right, monkey boi. I know exactly why I'm right, and I must be right with a vengeance if you feel compelled to admit it. Nope, Bertie |
#66
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Myth: 1 G barrel rolls are impossible.
Mxsmanic wrote in
: Jim Logajan writes: Drop the nose straight down so as to make the plane & pilot weightless. Then start doing horizontal loops so the centrifugal force yields the equivalent of one gravity of weight. The total force on the aircraft will still be above 1 G unless the entire loop is in free fall. Nope. Bertie |
#67
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Myth: 1 G barrel rolls are impossible.
Mxsmanic wrote in
: Jim Logajan writes: You appear to be confusing acceleration and force (you appear at times to treat them as the same thing), among other faults in your thinking. Applying force produces acceleration; acceleration is application of a force. But I'm not confusing anything; the confusion I see here is in others. Apparently physics is not a part of pilot training. Apparently, But you're stil talking nonsense. Bertie |
#68
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Myth: 1 G barrel rolls are impossible.
Mx -
I don't have a great understanding of physics, and you seem to understand it - so perhaps you can help me with something. What happens to the g force acting on me as a pilot if I start in straight and level, unaccelerated flight, and then I initiate a coordinated turn? Tom On Jun 12, 1:24 am, Mxsmanic wrote: Robert M. Gary writes: You are assuming that the center of the roll makes a straight line, that is not the case. I'm making no such assumption. The reality is that there will always be an acceleration of 1 G imposed on the aircraft, in the direction of the ground. There is nothing that you can do in an aircraft that will eliminate this acceleration, and there is nothing you can do in an aircraft that changes its height above the ground or its path over the ground that will not introduce additional acceleration. This is all basic physics. |
#69
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Myth: 1 G barrel rolls are impossible.
"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message .130... "muff528" wrote in news:S1pbi.1718$O15.1221@trnddc03: "Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message . 130... "Maxwell" wrote in : "Bob Moore" wrote in message 46.128... My name is Bob Moore :-) Just what is a barrel roll has been debated between "Big John", Dudley, and myself at least twice in the past. It IS difficult to describe without having a model airplane in one's hand and flying it through the maneuver. How come you don't seem to belive the following from Wikipedia? Barrel roll From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia This article is about the aerial sport. For the military operation, see Operation Barrel Roll. A barrel roll occurs when an object (usually an airplane or roller coaster) makes a complete rotation on its longitudinal axis while following a helical path, approximately maintaining its original direction. The G load is kept positive (but not constant) on the aircraft throughout the maneuver, commonly not more than 2-3 G. In aviation, the maneuver includes a constant variation of attitude in all three axes, and at the midpoint (top) of the roll, the aircraft is flying inverted, with the nose pointing at a 90-degree angle ("sideways") to the general path of flight. The term "barrel roll" is frequently used, incorrectly, to refer to any roll by an airplane (see aileron roll), or to a helical roll in which the nose remains pointed generally along the flight path. In fact, the barrel roll is a specific and difficult maneuver; a combination of a roll and a loop. It is not used in aerobatic competition. From: http://acro.harvard.edu The Barrel Roll is a not competition maneuver. The barrel roll is a combination between a loop and a roll. You complete one loop while completing one roll at the same time. The flight path during a barrel roll has the shape of a horizontal cork screw. Imagine a big barrel, with the airplanes wheels rolling along the inside of the barrel in a cork screw path. During a barrel roll, the pilot experiences always positive G's. The maximum is about 2.5 to 3 G, the minimum about 0.5 G. Then would you label the roll that Jim has described here as a form of aileron roll, instead of a barrel roll? Or do you think it is possible to do a 1g aileron roll? It's less of a roll than it is a loop. In fact, that's how I used to teach it. Get a hula hoop, cut it and pull the ends apart. you are now looking at the path of a barrel roll. A skewed loop Bertie Would it be possible to maintain 1g in the seat if the "corkscrew" were modified to a shape like an opening spiral, similar to a nautilus shell? Maybe slip to the right while pulling the nose up to induce acceleration of 1g. No. Bertie Damn! TP |
#70
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Myth: 1 G barrel rolls are impossible.
"muff528" wrote in news:V2Abi.5094$3Q4.153
@trnddc05: "Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message .130... "muff528" wrote in news:S1pbi.1718$O15.1221@trnddc03: "Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message . 130... "Maxwell" wrote in : "Bob Moore" wrote in message 46.128... My name is Bob Moore :-) Just what is a barrel roll has been debated between "Big John", Dudley, and myself at least twice in the past. It IS difficult to describe without having a model airplane in one's hand and flying it through the maneuver. How come you don't seem to belive the following from Wikipedia? Barrel roll From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia This article is about the aerial sport. For the military operation, see Operation Barrel Roll. A barrel roll occurs when an object (usually an airplane or roller coaster) makes a complete rotation on its longitudinal axis while following a helical path, approximately maintaining its original direction. The G load is kept positive (but not constant) on the aircraft throughout the maneuver, commonly not more than 2-3 G. In aviation, the maneuver includes a constant variation of attitude in all three axes, and at the midpoint (top) of the roll, the aircraft is flying inverted, with the nose pointing at a 90- degree angle ("sideways") to the general path of flight. The term "barrel roll" is frequently used, incorrectly, to refer to any roll by an airplane (see aileron roll), or to a helical roll in which the nose remains pointed generally along the flight path. In fact, the barrel roll is a specific and difficult maneuver; a combination of a roll and a loop. It is not used in aerobatic competition. From: http://acro.harvard.edu The Barrel Roll is a not competition maneuver. The barrel roll is a combination between a loop and a roll. You complete one loop while completing one roll at the same time. The flight path during a barrel roll has the shape of a horizontal cork screw. Imagine a big barrel, with the airplanes wheels rolling along the inside of the barrel in a cork screw path. During a barrel roll, the pilot experiences always positive G's. The maximum is about 2.5 to 3 G, the minimum about 0.5 G. Then would you label the roll that Jim has described here as a form of aileron roll, instead of a barrel roll? Or do you think it is possible to do a 1g aileron roll? It's less of a roll than it is a loop. In fact, that's how I used to teach it. Get a hula hoop, cut it and pull the ends apart. you are now looking at the path of a barrel roll. A skewed loop Bertie Would it be possible to maintain 1g in the seat if the "corkscrew" were modified to a shape like an opening spiral, similar to a nautilus shell? Maybe slip to the right while pulling the nose up to induce acceleration of 1g. No. Bertie Damn! Stil, be a fairly interesting thing to try. You'd need a pretty powerful airplane. Maybe you could get to name it. Bertie |
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